F14 Skinners thread (Paintkit in 1st post)

[Gunslinger22]

3 hours ago, Nealius said:

Texture overhauls? Other than the massive amount of space they take what we got is already top-shelf stuff. Aesthetically I don't see how they can be made any better. Or is the overhaul related to those 3D model changes? 

As to the ships and names/PCs, some compromise will have to be made there. If we get too concerned over those details then we'll never get anywhere. That's up to the creator of course. I'm just of the opinion that 100% accuracy of liveries is limiting the module's potential. Same goes for all the modules in DCS, really. 

I would take a crack at it myself, but I've already tried twice. I just can't do texture work other than slapping on a modex and an NSAWC logo on a blank template. Then that 3in1 lod file things is way beyond my undestanding.

I don't want to be misunderstood as demanding a certain livrey be made, I'm just arguing a case for a more realistic approach to the process that maximizes the Tomcat's gameplay potential instead of pigeonholing it to extreme specifics that ultimately limit it, perpetuating the “Digital Cockpit Simulator” issue we have across the entirety of DCS. 

 

The markings, tones and roughmet’s for the HB skins are very off, simply look at the quality and accuracy of Reflected’s F-14A skins compared to the default skins and you’ll see that the liveries we have aren’t really at HB’s lofty standards. They’ve missed simple things where it’s pretty clear that the A schemes are largely just copied from the B’s template. 

[Nealius]

1 hour ago, Gunslinger22 said:

The markings, tones and roughmet’s for the HB skins are very off, simply look at the quality and accuracy of Reflected’s F-14A skins compared to the default skins and you’ll see that the liveries we have aren’t really at HB’s lofty standards. They’ve missed simple things where it’s pretty clear that the A schemes are largely just copied from the B’s template. 

To be fair, later As had the same TPS colors as the Bs, but pre-TPS I see your point. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Nealius

[Gunslinger22]

37 minutes ago, Nealius said:

To be fair, later As had the same TPS colors as the Bs, but pre-TPS I see your point. 

 

Even then, totally different markings and stencils for both aircraft. Also as many other skinners with whom are far more skilled and knowledgeable than me will tell you how off HB’s TPS is! It’s been said since the start. 

[LanceCriminal86]

I've written and re-written a few replies now, but I'll try to lay this out best I can. Basically set aside the existing stuff, it's either getting overhauled or replaced in some way.

The base textures of the A and B, in certain key areas, need to be reworked/replaced. There were some oversights on the engine nacelles and tail leading edge reinforcements, plus the A and B needed to be made more distinct as the GE engine nacelles are different. Some D features needed to be removed, and some B features removed from the A like the RIO ladder step reinforcement plate.

On the stencil/paint side, the A did have various stencils that were more distinct from the B, namely the intake warnings and the turbine warning stripes at the rear of the jet. Those are some of the more obvious things that were on the existing A skins.

All existing skins will need to be brought up to that standard whenever the external model updates are completed. The same work should also include getting the model ready to represent the "earlier" A model, whichever general block or feature set that ends up being (visually). That will also mean the ALQ-126 for the late A and the B, so those textures have to get added or current skins adjusted to include those areas. This could also bring the anticipated TCS pod options, which if the concept being considered works might end up with some pretty exciting options for skinners or folks wanting to do older gen jets or a fake D. We might get the old style gun vents too, maybe an earlier beaver tail design without the ECM. We also might get the changes that represent an ALR-45 jet as opposed to the current one with ALR-67 antenna on the gear door.

As to the colors, it's really tough to tell. Photography, scans of old Kodachrome slides, possible changes to paint itself, fading, corrosion control, all add up to making it tough to nailing down one set of values for the TPS scheme, or even the hi-vis. You can look at 3 different websites or supposed references for the Fed 595C colors used in TPS, and get 3 entirely different sets of hex values or samples, and none of the 3 colors laid next to each other match the contrast seen on the TPS Tomcats. It's entirely possible that the existing TPS colors were sampled off of the museum jets but if being referenced indoors versus say outdoors it could have led to the darker shades we have now. Sometimes the colors look fine for some of the later jets, and it could also be that as Cobra described elsewhere they are working at 2.2 Gamma value while they are creating the textures. Either way, it's probably going to slowly transition around as new stuff is added and old stuff is addressed.

 

[Nealius]

I didn't know about the engine nacelles on the A. I thought most of the differences were minor like ECS ducts and things. TIL. 

 

The color x photography issue is something I'm familiar with in scale modeling. I stopped chasing color chips and reference photos and just went with whatever brand of paint I liked that was labeled the same FS code. After fading and weathering the final product would end up matching a photo somewhere even if it didn't match the colors on other photos, and that was good enough for me. I wish I could just take my airbrush to the computer screen because then livery creation would be so much easier. 

[fghidalg]

On 29/10/2021 at 4:20, isoko said:

[4K60fps] DCS World 2.7 | VF-154 ÚLTIMO CRUCERO TOMCAT 2003

Estreno en Youtube el domingo 31 de octubre de 2021 a las 12:00 (UTC) 

Isoko, incredible video and work, I still want to know for when you could release those fantastic skins, thank you very much

 

[LanceCriminal86]

The modeling side is helpful, but I usually find some of the modulation and weathering done to be not helpful.

As far as the TPS tones, there are some more modern digital photos from the last few years that seem to give a good representation of what the relationship of the 3 should generally be. But, I also suspect the paint mix could have changed over the years, and of course fresh paint vs at sea vs end of a cruise are all going to look different.

The nacelle stuff, I've laid it out previously in the thread but there are some extra panel lines on the GE jets and a few features that would be missing on a B vs an A, the fire punch-ins changed locations too, and the NACA ducts are supposed to be on the left side of the engine and further back on the panels. You can take care of removing the B/D panel fairly easily, but in doing to you have to save over the existing RM/Normal which degrades it. And it turns out some alignment issues exist in the panels themselves that need to be move "upwards" on the nacelles, but we'll have to see what Cobra can do there.

It's the kind of thing you mainly notice in doing the paintjobs, because you are trying to compare photos to the jet as you work, and often times when something doesn't line up right, you question why. That's basically what happened with the NACA ducts when we realized it didn't look right because the fire punch ins were needing to be almost centered in the panel but aligned with the back edge of the NACA. NACA was too far forwards, which in turn throws off trying to line up the punch-in stencil.

As to the tails, the leading edge is supposed to taper. A few of us had made the change and Reflected updated it with his recent pack update so at least some of the skins out there have that correct. In looking at the originals though, I can see where they used the scan of an F-14D that notably has a patch on the leading edge, which should not be there on every jet, and certainly not on both tails. It's the museum D model that was listed as one of the jets scanned in one of the Carolinas. Not many pics of it but I finally found one that showed a grainy patch on the right leading edge of the vertical stab. The reinforcement shape itself was just an oops/oversight.

Goal is to lay this all out to Cobra and see what is the most economical to tackle, between the model itself and what can be fixed just with texture changes. And this also has to jive with the time/effort that he's going to put in on getting us the missing late A/B features while also trying to implement earlier features for the older A and Iranian jets.

[=Skywarp=]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:20 AM, isoko said:

[ 4K60fps ] DCS World 2.7 | VF-154 LAST TOMCAT CRUISE 2003

Youtube premiere on Sunday, October 31, 2021, 12:00 (UTC) 

Hey Isoko, did you release it?

Can't wait...

On 11/2/2021 at 6:41 AM, Reflected said:

100+ working hours later…

Absolutely stunning!!

I almost had all of them, I'll replace for the new versions

[_YaeSakura_]

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3319383/

Though it is not a Tomcat, I feel like this fits here. CV-61 USS Ranger reskin for the USS Forrestal is now available.

[yewls]

4 hours ago, _YaeSakura_ said:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3319383/

Though it is not a Tomcat, I feel like this fits here. CV-61 USS Ranger reskin for the USS Forrestal is now available.

Thank you for this!!  Now we need late 80s/Desert Storm VF-1 and VF-2 filled out to go with it!

[_YaeSakura_]

10 minutes ago, yewls said:

Thank you for this!!  Now we need late 80s/Desert Storm VF-1 and VF-2 filled out to go with it!

Well, once I get through my 70s squadrons, I do have like a... 1985 VF-1 and VF-2 in mind. Unless if someone else beats me to getting all 24 jets.

[yewls]

Just now, _YaeSakura_ said:

Well, once I get through my 70s squadrons, I do have like a... 1985 VF-1 and VF-2 in mind. Unless if someone else beats me to getting all 24 jets.

Can't wait then, love that you do the full strength of jets!

[Gunslinger22]

1 hour ago, _YaeSakura_ said:

Well, once I get through my 70s squadrons, I do have like a... 1985 VF-1 and VF-2 in mind. Unless if someone else beats me to getting all 24 jets.

I was doing a base template for lowviz VF-2 during their 87 cruise that had some late cruise grime and filth to it, but I finally lost my battle with Photoshop when I updated my MacBook and found that CS6 was no longer supported and I am now required to purchase PS21. Other than me I’m not aware of anyone else doing it, so go for it! 

[Nealius]

@_YaeSakura_ Very nice! Any plans for a CV-62 Reskin? 

Also, I was trying to track you down the other day. I've been loving your VF-32 skin pack (which has disappeared from the User Files for some reason), and I discovered the generic birds without modexes have a texture LOD error. The yellow tail texture seems to disappear once the camera gets about 300ft away. All the numbered jets appear to be fine.

[_YaeSakura_]

20 minutes ago, Nealius said:

@_YaeSakura_ Very nice! Any plans for a CV-62 Reskin? 

Also, I was trying to track you down the other day. I've been loving your VF-32 skin pack (which has disappeared from the User Files for some reason), and I discovered the generic birds without modexes have a texture LOD error. The yellow tail texture seems to disappear once the camera gets about 300ft away. All the numbered jets appear to be fine.

First someone asks for Super Sara and now comes Indy

In all seriousness though, I very much can do the other 3 Forrestal-Class carriers to act as a temporary stopgap before Heatblur actually does(if they manage to do) 60, 61, and 62. And in regards to my VF-32 package, I've been meaning to do a full revamp on it, but have not gotten around to doing so as of late. However, the CAG jet for the 1975-76 JFK Cruise has been added to the base game as it was chosen as the F-14A winner for the HB Competition early this year, if that can provide an example of the quality leap compared to the old. As of right now however... I've been wrapped up with classes and am working to correct a detail that lies on my WIP VF-1 and VF-2. After that's done, I can go to VF-14(unless if a close friend of mine still intends to get those done) and VF-32.

Edited November 11, 2021 by _YaeSakura_

[Reflected]

 

[yewls]

On 11/10/2021 at 2:11 PM, yewls said:

Thank you for this!!  Now we need late 80s/Desert Storm VF-1 and VF-2 filled out to go with it!

Wow, ask and I guess I shall receive!  Cheers for all you do Reflected, if you knew how excited I was watching that video!!

[Nealius]

Speaking of NK series VF-2, I have a VF-1 skin pack with NK100-114 from....somewhere....and it has a lot of missing textures issues. Missing textures on the pilots, pylons, TCS, and roughmets. I was hoping to use it along with Reflected's VF-2 skins, but how can I rectify the missing textures errors? 

[fghidalg]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, isoko said:

I apologize for being so far behind schedule.
The VF-154 skin pack is expected to be released sometime in November, after the video release.

hello everyone, anyone knows if this wonder will be available, thank you

[isoko]

soon!

[fghidalg]

1 hour ago, isoko said:

soon!

Isoko, thank you for your attention, many will be very happy with your incredible work

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by fghidalg

[fghidalg]

a question for everyone someone knows the history of this scheme and will have real photos, they would be a good proposal to create this skin, thank you very much

[Swordsman422]

All I know is that it was a VERY short-lived nose art seen at NAS Oceana in the spring of of 2001 and was applied to a D-model jet. Photographers Pete Boschert and Dave Brown took the only photos I have ever seen of it.

[fghidalg]

thanks

[Reflected]