Need help with RADAR operations from the pilot seat

[kievbsm]

Hello!

 

I’ve spent yesterday’s evening in practice with Mig-29 and Su-27 enemies.

It was in offline and I used Jester as RIO. Everything looked quite simple and clear, except for some moments related to the control of the radar.

 

The main idea of the mission was to take off from the airfield consistently to meet with four MiG-29 or Su-27 (one by one) and win. I only had 2 AIM-7 and 2 AIM-9 on board.

During the interceptions I repeatedly encountered the problem when Jester lost the target and could no longer find it.

 

Probably, it would be easier for a man as RIO to do this, but I do not have a partner and have to negotiate with RIO through the pop-up menu.

It turned out that the enemy was detected at about 40 miles on a head-on course and approximately at the same height. I gave Jester a command for STT capture and tracking of the target, which he did. The target was in a steady capture somewhere up to 20-22 miles, after which the capture fell off and the target disappeared from the radar screen. No commands that I could give to Jester to search for a target (search in azimuth, decrease scan distance, or other like this) could not detect the target. All this continued until the target first launched a missile for me, or until I myself captured it in PAL mode.

 

Thus, it turned out that when using a missile for launching without a radar capture of me, I could not see it at all.:cry:

 

Purely logically, I understand that there is probably some kind of blind spot at such a distance, when the radar must somehow be configured differently or transferred to another mode. But how to do it through the Jester’s menu is not clear to me.

There are many training videos on YouTube, which show all the necessary actions to control the radar station from the RIO seat. But they do not show what to do to the pilot in the case when RIO is Jester.

Therefore, for me, the question remains open: how can I correctly converge with the target and attack its AIM-7, without losing a target?

Maybe someone will share their experience of flying with F-14B for such cases?

 

For example, as I do:

1. I go into the sector and give the command to Jester to scan the space ahead at a distance of 100 miles.

2. He finds the target and I get close to it.

3. When reaching the allowed distance, I laugh one or two AIM-54.

4. In most cases, they missed, because the target has time to turn after AIM-54 heads turned on.

5. Continuing to approach the target. The most critical moment of the battle for me - I do not understand what I have to do. What radar’s mode should be active in Jester’s menu to search for the target? Wait for Jester, giving him commands through the menu or looking for the target myself.:doh:

6. If I am lucky, then this frag is mine. If not I hug the parachute. No luck more ...

To be honest, I have never encountered such a problem on F-15C, so I am sure that I am doing something wrong, and therefore I ask for help.:(

[Banzaiib]

Use ACM modes inside 20 miles... At 20 miles you can start to pick them up with PAL mode (forward, 40 degree, 4 bar pattern)... then inside 5-10 miles, you can use VSL (vert scan)

[key_stroked]

have to negotiate with RIO through the pop-up menu

 

That's the most accurate description of interacting with Jester I've seen so far! :D

 

Use ACM modes inside 20 miles... At 20 miles you can start to pick them up with PAL mode (forward, 40 degree, 4 bar pattern)... then inside 5-10 miles, you can use VSL (vert scan)

 

Technically PAL is usable at 15 miles, which is significant because if you lose lock on a target at 20 miles and you're switching radar modes, that target can potentially launch on you with a medium range missile, like the AIM-120.

[kievbsm]

Technically PAL is usable at 15 miles, which is significant because if you lose lock on a target at 20 miles and you're switching radar modes, that target can potentially launch on you with a medium range missile, like the AIM-120.

 

That is what I've met!

These 5-7 miles were critical for me especially when my enemy was a human.

The real pilot in MP missions suddenly decreased his altitude (launched ER-27T and dive to down).

I tried to find him with PAL but found the missile in my cockpit instead. The radar's scan zone in PAL mode on course didn't find him on the same altitude. And I didn't know (didn't see) that he changed his altitude. :(

[USA_Recon]

Jester *should* be able to still use radar within 20 miles.   It's a shortcoming that we have to switch to a 20 mile PAL lock.

 

What is the default elevation range on PAL btw ?

[draconus]

On 1/7/2021 at 3:00 PM, USA_Recon said:

Jester *should* be able to still use radar within 20 miles.   It's a shortcoming that we have to switch to a 20 mile PAL lock.

 

What is the default elevation range on PAL btw ?

Jester does use the radar even up close - it's not like he turns it off at 20nm. It's just that the cone gets so small at close ranges that it becomes very hard to get a beam on a flying and maneuvering target. Hence the pilot maneuvering and autoacqusition modes that perform far better in ACM.

PAL is 8bar (11.5 degrees vertical) search +/-20 degrees in azimuth which means it's around +/-9100 ft at 15nm mark.

[Noctrach]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Jester does use the radar even up close - it's not like he turns it off at 20nm. It's just that the cone gets so small at close ranges that it becomes very hard to get a beam on a flying and maneuvering target. Hence the pilot maneuvering and autoacqusition modes that perform far better in ACM.

PAL is 8bar (11.5 degrees vertical) search +/-20 degrees in azimuth which means it's around +/-9100 ft at 15nm mark.

Hence why I advocate for having elevation, azimuth, bars and width as pilot controls.

 

As a RIO 20 mile pickups are absolute peanuts in PD-SRCH or RWS, it doesnt get difficult until about 5-10 miles from the target at which point you will either go VSL or call pilot radar and switch to PAL. Jester only works with "TWS-like" settings. So 40/2 or 20/4. This is a poor setting for sanitization, but its simply dreadful for combat picking up on manoeuvring bandits at any range below 30 miles.

 

People generally like to tell others to fly RIO themselves to see why Jester says "unable" so often. I fly almost exclusively RIO and the conclusion, unfortunately, is simply that Jester doesn't actually do any sensible RIO things. A mediocre human RIO is already miles ahead of Jester when it comes to radar utilization.

 

I don't mind Jester. I think he's amazing for the extent that it's possible to create such a complex support tool.

But for combat purposes, the single pilot experience is really lacking. You already lose out on the DDD which comprises the vast majority of the important target data. You have no MLC control, no PD-SRCH and no P-SRCH beyond PAL.

 

I'm fine leaving most of it in Jester's hands. But it's complex enough trying to handle a seat and a half by yourself, so at least give us the tools to do the few most critical things that Jester simply can't.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Noctrach

[USA_Recon]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:25 AM, Noctrach said:

Hence why I advocate for having elevation, azimuth, bars and width as pilot controls.

 

As a RIO 20 mile pickups are absolute peanuts in PD-SRCH or RWS, it doesnt get difficult until about 5-10 miles from the target at which point you will either go VSL or call pilot radar and switch to PAL. Jester only works with "TWS-like" settings. So 40/2 or 20/4. This is a poor setting for sanitization, but its simply dreadful for combat picking up on manoeuvring bandits at any range below 30 miles.

 

People generally like to tell others to fly RIO themselves to see why Jester says "unable" so often. I fly almost exclusively RIO and the conclusion, unfortunately, is simply that Jester doesn't actually do any sensible RIO things. A mediocre human RIO is already miles ahead of Jester when it comes to radar utilization.

 

I don't mind Jester. I think he's amazing for the extent that it's possible to create such a complex support tool.

But for combat purposes, the single pilot experience is really lacking. You already lose out on the DDD which comprises the vast majority of the important target data. You have no MLC control, no PD-SRCH and no P-SRCH beyond PAL.

 

I'm fine leaving most of it in Jester's hands. But it's complex enough trying to handle a seat and a half by yourself, so at least give us the tools to do the few most critical things that Jester simply can't.

 

Agree 100%

[NaCH]

 

On 1/13/2021 at 5:25 PM, Noctrach said:

Hence why I advocate for having elevation, azimuth, bars and width as pilot controls.

 

As a RIO 20 mile pickups are absolute peanuts in PD-SRCH or RWS, it doesnt get difficult until about 5-10 miles from the target at which point you will either go VSL or call pilot radar and switch to PAL. Jester only works with "TWS-like" settings. So 40/2 or 20/4. This is a poor setting for sanitization, but its simply dreadful for combat picking up on manoeuvring bandits at any range below 30 miles.

 

People generally like to tell others to fly RIO themselves to see why Jester says "unable" so often. I fly almost exclusively RIO and the conclusion, unfortunately, is simply that Jester doesn't actually do any sensible RIO things. A mediocre human RIO is already miles ahead of Jester when it comes to radar utilization.

 

I don't mind Jester. I think he's amazing for the extent that it's possible to create such a complex support tool.

But for combat purposes, the single pilot experience is really lacking. You already lose out on the DDD which comprises the vast majority of the important target data. You have no MLC control, no PD-SRCH and no P-SRCH beyond PAL.

 

I'm fine leaving most of it in Jester's hands. But it's complex enough trying to handle a seat and a half by yourself, so at least give us the tools to do the few most critical things that Jester simply can't.

 

Just the MLC control and then to PD-STT or P-STT... it just use the automated lock and does not use the strobes in the DDD to lock the target. 

 

And today in MP when everyone had a live guy in gamemaster slot seeing the lunches and calling them to their buddy's ... something that I really hate....  the MLC and P-STT is something needed unless you just plan to lunch them active off the rail and play the dance game up close.