TGP Laser Designation

[toilet2000]

With the TGP coming at one point to the F/A-18C and the fact that all other modules using the Litening TGP suffers from that, I wonder if ED will change the range limitation of the Laser Designator.

 

Currently, the range sits at around 8 NM in-game, while it should be much more than that. According to Global Security, the requirements for the LANTIRN 40k' pod was 17.3 NM in combat lasing mode, which it exceeded.

 

Considering the LANTIRN is an older generation TGP than the Litening (and even more so the ATFLIR), the Litening should surely be able to designate above the 17 NM range in good weather conditions.

 

On top of that, the current range limitation effect makes the designated point move in 3D space instead of simply scattering and returning no designation, see this video for more info:

 

[QuiGon]

+1

[Stratos]

I'm really looking forward to the TGP, it will be a game changer for the Hornet, and I really hope they change the 8NM limit.

[Banman]

While the laser may go +17.3NM it would never be used to target from that far. The laser has a beam divergence as all lasers do. Meaning the beam is nice and tight near the pod and it grows like a cone the further away you get. The tighter the beam divergence the tighter the cone will be.

 

When using the targeting pod to paint for say a LGB or a Maverick you typically (99.9%) are looking for a very precise impact point. From, say 15NM, your laser would be painting the size of a football field or more and no telling where the ordnance would land inside of it. I cannot speak on ED's behalf but they may limit the range of the laser to simulate the "effective range" of an actual laser. Not how far the beam can actually go. DCS usually does a very good job of modeling the game play to simulate actual "real" capabilities and having a FAC-A or even self designating targets from extreme ranges would not be very realistic.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Banman

[Banzaiib]

While the laser may go +17.3NM it would never be used to target from that far. The laser has a beam divergence as all lasers do. Meaning the beam is nice and tight near the pod and it grows like a cone the further away you get. The tighter the beam divergence the tighter the cone will be.

 

When using the targeting pod to paint for say a LGB or a Maverick you typically (99.9%) are looking for a very precise impact point. From, say 15NM, your laser would be painting the size of a football field or more and no telling where the ordnance would land inside of it. I cannot speak on ED's behalf but they may limit the range of the laser to simulate the "effective range" of an actual laser. Not how far the beam can actually go. DCS usually does a very good job of modeling the game play to simulate actual "real" capabilities and having a FAC-A or even self designating targets from extreme ranges would not be very realistic.

 

Oh comon man... The LANTIRN laser is not a laser pointer you get at walmart. The laser divergence at 15NM is not the size of a football field...

[Gierasimov]

If a designator has a beam spread or divergence of 1 milliradian, its spot would have a diameter of approximately 1 meter at a distance of 1,000 meters in front of the designator. For planning purposes, spot size should be determined and ideally equal to no more than half the target surface area.

Modern pods use lasers that are <0.22mRad for tactical purposes and slightly bigger for training.

 

So taking ideal spot size to hit T-80 side would be something like 2.42 sq meters. Ideal slant range for 0.22 mRad laser would be 11 km, or approx. 6 nmi.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Gierasimov
calcs

[Banman]

Oh comon man... The LANTIRN laser is not a laser pointer you get at walmart. The laser divergence at 15NM is not the size of a football field...

 

The reference was for explanation purposes. The point was that IRL you would not designate targets from 15NM.

 

If a designator has a beam spread or divergence of 1 milliradian, its spot would have a diameter of approximately 1 meter at a distance of 1,000 meters in front of the designator. For planning purposes, spot size should be determined and ideally equal to no more than half the target surface area.

Modern pods use lasers that are <0.22mRad for tactical purposes and slightly bigger for training.

 

So taking ideal spot size to hit T-80 side would be something like 2.42 sq meters. Ideal slant range for 0.22 mRad laser would be 11 km, or approx. 6 nmi.

 

Thank you. 6MN, hummmmmm pretty close to that 8NM number I have seen people say that DCS limits the laser to. Coincidence? I doubt it.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Banman

[Gierasimov]

Yep, then for a larger target, you would calculate larger spot size = to more distance but also need to calculate visibility and other conditions that can affect the laser shot.

This is based on the available unclassified data, so classified factors play a role too I would think.

[Ramsay]

Oh comon man... The LANTIRN laser is not a laser pointer you get at walmart. The laser divergence at 15NM is not the size of a football field...

 

This is a 338 page technical paper from 2010 that you may want to look for that covers most points :

 

• Airborne Laser Systems Testing and Analysis, a534869.pdf

 

Abstract : This AGARDograph presents state-of-the-art methods for evaluating the performance of laser systems operating in the infrared with different operational and environmental conditions. Results of the PILASTER (PISQ LASer Test and Evaluation Range) research and development program, conducted by the Italian Air Force Flight Test Centre in collaboration with the Defence Academy of the United Kingdom (Cranfield University) are presented.

 

For aircraft experimental activities with laser systems, it is important to define test missions representative of different operational scenarios and to verify systems performance in realistic environments.

 

Laser technology status and future technology trends are investigated, in order to determine the relative strengths and weaknesses of these technologies when applied to airborne systems.

 

Mathematical models for laser beam propagation, mission geometry analysis, target reflectivity and detection are identified. Safety issues are analysed in the light of the operational requirements and human eye safety for airborne laser systems and guided weapons. Technical characteristics of the PILASTER range instrumentation are identified.

 

Finally, the requirements associated with tactical and test/training mission planning are defined with the kernel algorithms of suitable simulation programs capable to assist aircrews and flight test engineers in the determination of optimal aircraft flight profiles.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Ramsay