Question about VR res, PD and HP Reverb

[imacken]

Here's a question for you guys, with my kit I can run DCS at pretty high settings and a PD of 1.5 on my Vive Pro. That gives an effective res of 2160x2400 per eye. I can't go any higher than this and maintain 45 fps.

So, why do we think that the Reverb would be able to go much higher than its native 2160x2160? Surely, the limitations of the other hardware will come into play.

[wormeaten]

Here's a question for you guys, with my kit I can run DCS at pretty high settings and a PD of 1.5 on my Vive Pro. That gives an effective res of 2160x2400 per eye. I can't go any higher than this and maintain 45 fps.

So, why do we think that the Reverb would be able to go much higher than its native 2160x2160? Surely, the limitations of the other hardware will come into play.

 

 

I will say it like this, imagine Vive PRO as 1080p TV and Reverb as 4K TV.

If you run 4K video, both TV will run 4K but will always look better on real 4K TV.

[Harlikwin]

You wont be able to run high PD with a reverb but you wont have to.

[Buckeye]

If it's anything like the 5K+, you'll be at 1.0PD if you're lucky and have the best hardware.

[imacken]

You wont be able to run high PD with a reverb but you wont have to.

 

Guys, I think my point is that if running at effective res of 2160x2400 at the moment stretches my hardware, why would the Reverb be able to push any more?

[fredclan]

because…..BECAUSE....dammit.

[Strong05]

This:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=237988

 

Also, I have a worse system in every regard to you and am able to run 2.0 PD on the odyssey (same res as vive pro I believe). What server/maps are you running? Are you using Steam or in game PD settings? What graphics setting are you using? I usually maintain about 45 fps and hardly ever drop lower then 30fps (only time it becomes clear I have low frames for me).

[imacken]

Thanks but that isn’t really my point. What I’m saying is that if I (or anyone else) has reached my hardware limit at similar res (1.5x Vive Pro) to native Reverb, then, purely in those terms, there will be no benefit as I can’t push it any further than what I already have.

(Image quality is not relevant to the point I’m trying to make.)

[Tinkickef]

But image quality is everything. I don't understand why you would want to push your system harder for no gain in quality, unless you just want to load up your card?

 

From what I gather from your post, this is not what you are asking, but just in case..

 

Reverb will give a far better quality image at native resolution than your vive pro would even if you could push the PD to 2.2, not 1.5 and will do it far more efficiently.

 

You may be able to bump up the resolution a little more, but that will depend on the map, your hardware, and the upcoming vr optimisation, but generally native resolution will be where the tech today is at, much like how it was when Rift released and we were all flying around with PD at 1.0.

Most of us at that time had never heard of pixel density, never mind increasing it via software to get a better image.

I would imagine that further optimizations will come along in time just like they did with Rift.

 

I run my Rift setup with everything high and PD at 2.2. I have been as high as 2.4 without problems, depending on map ect, however any difference in visual quality between 2.2 and 2.4 is barely perceptible and not worth having.

 

It does mean that I should have a little headroom when the new hardware arrives. Time will tell. It depends how good Windows motion smoothing is compared to Oculus ASW.

 

Individual results may vary. My PC is dedicated to gaming and light internet surfing only, no other bloatware on it. If I need to type a letter I use my older PC.....

Edited April 13, 2019 by Tinkickef

[imacken]

My point here is nothing to do with Vive Pro vs Reverb. I am simply concerned that a lot of people are excited about the high res of the Reverb, yet will be struggling to make it work satisfactorily on their current hardware.

I am basing this on the fact that my (fairly high end) system peaks at a res (with PD) similar to the Reverb.

[Tinkickef]

My point here is nothing to do with Vive Pro vs Reverb. I am simply concerned that a lot of people are excited about the high res of the Reverb, yet will be struggling to make it work satisfactorily on their current hardware.

I am basing this on the fact that my (fairly high end) system peaks at a res (with PD) similar to the Reverb.

 

 

Now I see..

 

Yes, it is fairly obvious that those with an older system will need to update their hardware and many are planning to do so. I would regard the 2080TI as a necessity for high settings, as the bump in res is really a GPU thing, not CPU.

 

1080TI owners may get away with lowering some settings, yet can still benefit hugely from the increased resolution.

 

My poor old, heavily overclocked 980TI STRIX would have burst into flames.....

 

 

I recall when announcing I had the 2080TI on pre order, some thought I was mad paying £1400 on a GPU and should go for a 10 series card instead. They were right and wrong, a 1080TI would have been sufficient at that time, but I was not buying my 2080TI for then, I was buying it for now.

 

Instead of dropping maybe £600 on a new headset this year, I would have dropped £800 on a GPU last year and still be scrabbling around trying to find £2K for a headset and a GPU to run it this year.

 

I am a firm believer in having a planned upgrade program. My next upgrade was to be the CPU and RAM, but with the announced optimizations and proposed Vulkan changeover, I will hold off a little longer.

 

My current rig was built in 2015. I figure I may retire it next year, stripping out the still relevant, recently upgraded parts for the new rig. My next planned GPU upgrade will be the 2280TI. I always skip a generation.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Tinkickef

[imacken]

I would regard the 2080TI as a necessity for high settings, as the bump in res is really a GPU thing, not CPU.

 

I would disagree with that statement. Although what you say is totally logical, I feel DCS is CPU constrained.

I see a lot of headroom in the GPU, but the CPU with none when pushed to the limit. Vulkan may be the answer, but this has been discussed many times here, and we’re getting OT!

[some1]

When you bump the resolution through PD, the load increase is almost solely on the GPU.

[imacken]

When you bump the resolution through PD, the load increase is almost solely on the GPU.

 

Yes, I know, but the CPU still hits the buffers before the GPU.

[some1]

Not on resolutions like Reverb and up.

[imacken]

On the 2080Ti, yes it will be CPU limited imo. Like it is at the moment in high PDs.

[Tinkickef]

On the 2080Ti, yes it will be CPU limited imo. Like it is at the moment in high PDs.

 

 

When I did the first test with the 2080TI and the 4790k in VR; I was not seeing CPU limitations. What I did see is poor vr optimisation within the DCS engine. Apparently the ED devs agreed as this is being worked on.

 

If you are not getting stutters and hourglass now with current hardware, you will (probably) not get them with the higher res headsets. I say probably because no one knows how much CPU headroom the new headsets will require to operate through their specific apps.

 

Things like lots of AI units and all the bells and whistles eat CPU headroom, pushing pixels does not. The bells and whistles can be dialled back easily.

The info is already being sent to the GPU, the GPU is converting that info and compiling it into frames, then sending that info to the headset. The headset is incapable of displaying that info, which is why pushing PD is subject to the law of diminishing returns. This is why I said that displaying at native resolution is far more efficient than upscaling and then downscaling again.

 

I don't see cpu headroom requirements being any different to what the Oculus app requires.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Tinkickef

[imacken]

I'm not concerned about myself, I'm perfectly happy with the performance at 2160x2400 PD res on the Vive Pro. What I am saying is that at that res, my DCS is CPU limited. There is headroom in the GPU, but not in the CPU, so there is no point in pushing the res any further.

As such, I am a little concerned that some people with lesser hardware are going to be disappointed in the performance of the Reverb when they get one!

Personally, I will buy one on release and see how it does perform.

[some1]

I don't see much headroom on my GPU with PD 2.0.

 

Just an empty mission with a Tomcat in the rain, and it barely makes 45 fps on my usual settings (but with PD 2.0 instead of 1.5 which I normally use).

2160x2400 per eye, MSAAx2

Edited April 14, 2019 by some1

[Harlikwin]

I don't see much headroom on my GPU with PD 2.0.

 

Just an empty mission with a Tomcat in the rain, and it barely makes 45 fps on my usual settings (but with PD 2.0 instead of 1.5 which I normally use).

2160x2400 per eye, MSAAx2

 

Whats your rig/card?

[some1]

GTX 2080 Ti as indicated, plus 8700K and 32GB RAM.

[Harlikwin]

GTX 2080 Ti as indicated, plus 8700K and 32GB RAM.

 

Got it, so basically same as me now. And yeah I see the same thing with PD2 and msaax2...

 

Then again it should look MUCH better on an actual 2160 display, with less aliasing than what we see on a rift even with high PD and MSAA.

 

Plus I hope the 50% frame fix is in by then.