Valve Index Hands On

[Supmua]

I was excited about collecting my Index this weekend but now I fear for my 2070 laptop. Seems like everyone in here is running 2080tis. Is there any hope?

 

 

 

If you turn down graphic settings and turn off shadows then yeah. Sometimes I still use the Index with my 7700K/1080 setup.

[Nahemoth]

I've now flown a good 16 hours using the above settings in multiplayer and it's rock solid. I'll usually fly 4 hours at a stretch. Using 436.02 as well.

 

I get quite good stable FPS, but I still see the ghosting effect when I pass over another plane, I see it duplicated! Even with MSAA off, it is a bit annoying... do you experience the same?

[Wicked.-]

I get quite good stable FPS, but I still see the ghosting effect when I pass over another plane, I see it duplicated! Even with MSAA off, it is a bit annoying... do you experience the same?

 

I don't have that issue unless there's a big lag spike. As I've said before I fly almost exclusively on our squad server with as many as 10 guys flying at once. We fly close formation for carrier breaks with maybe 10' between wingtips with no issues like that. There are occasions when my frames will drag down a bit and I'll see my wings blur a bit but that's it.

What are your specs and are you using Process Lasso? That plays a big part I'm convinced since I set VRCompositor, vrserver and DCS to real time priority. Most of the time it's silky smooth though when I first join it might hiccup a couple times while the map and objects are loading into memory.

[Nahemoth]

I don't have that issue unless there's a big lag spike. As I've said before I fly almost exclusively on our squad server with as many as 10 guys flying at once. We fly close formation for carrier breaks with maybe 10' between wingtips with no issues like that. There are occasions when my frames will drag down a bit and I'll see my wings blur a bit but that's it.

What are your specs and are you using Process Lasso? That plays a big part I'm convinced since I set VRCompositor, vrserver and DCS to real time priority. Most of the time it's silky smooth though when I first join it might hiccup a couple times while the map and objects are loading into memory.

 

I fly offline, so I expect less processor requirements (or maybe not?). My rig specifications are i7 9700k @ 5GHz, 2080Ti (no so much OC), 32 GB RAM @ 3200MHz, 1TB Samsung Evo 970Pro M.2

 

I configured your same settings, and everything goes fine, except for the planes around me, depending on their relative speed.

 

I have installed process lasso, evaluation version (I have not paid yet), but I need to play a bit more with the settings. I will try the real time priority.

[imacken]

I have installed process lasso, evaluation version (I have not paid yet), but I need to play a bit more with the settings. I will try the real time priority.

 

FWIW, I got no benefit at all from PL when I tried it some time ago. A lot of people get nothing out of it, but some people see a benefit.

[Wicked.-]

I fly offline, so I expect less processor requirements (or maybe not?). My rig specifications are i7 9700k @ 5GHz, 2080Ti (no so much OC), 32 GB RAM @ 3200MHz, 1TB Samsung Evo 970Pro M.2

 

I configured your same settings, and everything goes fine, except for the planes around me, depending on their relative speed.

 

I have installed process lasso, evaluation version (I have not paid yet), but I need to play a bit more with the settings. I will try the real time priority.

 

 

Try setting DCS, vrcompositor and vrserver to real time priority. You should be able to do this with the evaluation program. It will warn that Windows may override the settings and drop them to high; just ignore it. You'll have to have DCS running and alt tab to set priority on DCS. Setting these three processes to real time is what eliminated stuttering and tearing of frames and smoothed out my FPS. At least it did for me but YMMV.

 

Next, what speed memory do you have and what speed is it running?

[Supmua]

K, my experience with Process Lasso so far. The only benefit I can see is via setting task priority to high for important processes such as DCS, VRCompositor, games you're playing, etc. I actually found that I have reduced frametime spikes by letting Windows 10 manage CPU affinity, rather than assigning them by myself.

 

So, you can do the same thing via task manager but you have to redo this every time so it's not worth the effort. With Process Lasso, set it once and the setting stays on the next time you play. So that's the advantage there.

 

The only significant benefit I saw is mostly with Oculus exclusive games via Revive. I stopped getting frametime spikes or crashing out once the priorities were set to high. Vader Immortal part 2 just came out today and it is simply superb for $10 especially in 120Hz mode, this app typically crashed me out with high graphic setting. I didn't really see any significant difference with DCS.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Supmua

[Wicked.-]

The new beta 1.8.6 seems to freeze occasionally. I only flew for about 10 minutes but it froze, then unfroze 3 times.

[imacken]

So, you can do the same thing via task manager but you have to redo this every time so it's not worth the effort. With Process Lasso, set it once and the setting stays on the next time you play. So that's the advantage there.

 

What do you have to redo every time?

 

EDIT: sorry, I see what you mean, setting the priority each time in TM.

Edited September 26, 2019 by imacken

[Nahemoth]

Try setting DCS, vrcompositor and vrserver to real time priority. You should be able to do this with the evaluation program. It will warn that Windows may override the settings and drop them to high; just ignore it. You'll have to have DCS running and alt tab to set priority on DCS. Setting these three processes to real time is what eliminated stuttering and tearing of frames and smoothed out my FPS. At least it did for me but YMMV.

 

Next, what speed memory do you have and what speed is it running?

 

I have tried the priority settings with PL, and no improvement...

 

My memory modules are those: G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4 3200 PC4-25600 32GB 2x16GB CL15

 

And they are running at 3200 MHz.

 

I selected the free flight in Caucasus scenario (not challenging), where the GPU is at 76%, and the CPU at 19%.

 

But it is really curious because it only happens to high speed passing planes, and not for the buildings at low flight, where the relative speed can be higher...

[Wicked.-]

Our specs are so close I honestly can't say what would be causing your issue. The fact you can't get your GPU higher than 76% sounds like a throttling or bottleneck issue. I'll run a quick test using the free flight instant action with the 18 and monitor the usage of CPU and GPU.

[Wicked.-]

This was just now. You definitely have a bottleneck somewhere.

 

 

[Nahemoth]

This was just now. You definitely have a bottleneck somewhere.

 

 

 

I was using fpsvr to see the percentage usage, which is the tool you are using?

 

But yes, it seems there is a bottleneck...

[Nahemoth]

I see, it is HW monitor.... these are my numbers:

 

 

The GPU is at maximum, but not is the case for the CPU cores.

 

The ghosting/stuttering effect is very noticeable when you select an external view (F3 key), and you see your onw plane passing.

[Wicked.-]

I'm not having those symptoms at all, especially in SP. I would expect to see less than 100% usage on your GPU if your CPU usage is low but that's obviously not the case. You can see where cores 2, 4 and 7 are over 90% on my system. However, I did not set affinity to those cores. I simply set real time priority for DCS.exe, vrcompositor and vrserver.

What background apps do you have running?

 

I notice your system will drop back to 800Mhz. I would go into bios and set your base clock to 50x on all cores all the time. Do not let it drop back down.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Wicked.-

[Nahemoth]

I'm not having those symptoms at all, especially in SP. I would expect to see less than 100% usage on your GPU if your CPU usage is low but that's obviously not the case. You can see where cores 2, 4 and 7 are over 90% on my system. However, I did not set affinity to those cores. I simply set real time priority for DCS.exe, vrcompositor and vrserver.

What background apps do you have running?

 

I notice your system will drop back to 800Mhz. I would go into bios and set your base clock to 50x on all cores all the time. Do not let it drop back down.

 

There were some BIOS settings for energy saving, I disabled them and now the CPU speed does not drop. With those processes set to real time priority I get the same ghosting effect.

 

Anyway, I think that the CPU usage is quite low.

 

I do not have any special app running in background, just fpsvr.

 

[Wicked.-]

There were some BIOS settings for energy saving, I disabled them and now the CPU speed does not drop. With those processes set to real time priority I get the same ghosting effect.

 

Anyway, I think that the CPU usage is quite low.

 

I do not have any special app running in background, just fpsvr.

 

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Your CPU usage is extremely low and I have no idea why but I'm pretty sure that's your cause for stuttering. Im out of things to try honestly. On one hand you're getting 100% GPU usage but on the other hand your CPU is 50%. It's not like your CPU is any faster than a 9900K and 50% is all it takes to run the GPU at 100%. I'm stumped..

[Supmua]

Another tip from me. If you are not using MSAA, reducing Index's display brightness to 90% can decrease shimmering by quite a bit. You won't see significant effect on thin white lines at airports, but edges of objects such as buildings and trees should now have significant shimmering reduction. This positive effect is even more pronounced in other games such as Lone Echo when AA setting is off.

[imacken]

Another tip from me. If you are not using MSAA, reducing Index's display brightness to 90% can decrease shimmering by quite a bit. You won't see significant effect on thin white lines at airports, but edges of objects such as buildings and trees should now have significant shimmering reduction. This positive effect is even more pronounced in other games such as Lone Echo when AA setting is off.

 

Personally, I see no difference with turning the display brightness down. The acid test is always flying through the skyscrapers of Dubai.

 

I really hate the shimmering!

[Nahemoth]

Your CPU usage is extremely low and I have no idea why but I'm pretty sure that's your cause for stuttering. Im out of things to try honestly. On one hand you're getting 100% GPU usage but on the other hand your CPU is 50%. It's not like your CPU is any faster than a 9900K and 50% is all it takes to run the GPU at 100%. I'm stumped..

 

I discovered that win10 game mode was enabled, but no effect when I disabled it.

 

It seems that something is limiting the CPU usage... maybe some setting of Process Lasso? Or in the BIOS... My MB is a Gigabyte Aorus Master.

 

Maybe another option is to start from the scratch and reinstalling everything.

[Nahemoth]

Before formatting the hard drive, I have done some tests. I set the processor affinity of DCS to just one or two cores, and I saw that percentage usage for those cores increased notably, reaching 100% for the case of using one core.

 

When the installation finishes I will try again with a clean system, let's see...

[Gunnergolly]

Have been using the Index for about four weeks now and really like it, i'm having to make compromises like running without MSAA and at 80Hz so that I can maintain a steady 40Hz.

 

I'm sure this question has been asked many times before but what would investing in a RTX 2080Ti bring to the table ?... would it allow me to turn MSAA back on and sustain 45Hz (90Hz mode) down the Dubai strip?.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Gunnergolly

[Nahemoth]

Ok, after installing everything again, with the same settings, the results are the same! Same performance with ghosting effect in the surrounding planes (not for the static buildings).

 

I don't see what is going on...

 

So lowered all the graphic settings (lowest possible) in DCS and ghosting disappeared, but the game was running at 90 FPS, that is, no reprojection or motion smoothing. I started increasing the settings, and when steamvr needs to interpolate frames not reaching the 90 FPS, the ghosting appears again. Somehow the problem is the motion smoothing.

 

With a stable settings if I enable MSAA, it remains stable...

 

I will continue doing more tests.

[TrollingThunder]

Ok, after installing everything again, with the same settings, the results are the same! Same performance with ghosting effect in the surrounding planes (not for the static buildings).

 

I don't see what is going on...

 

So lowered all the graphic settings (lowest possible) in DCS and ghosting disappeared, but the game was running at 90 FPS, that is, no reprojection or motion smoothing. I started increasing the settings, and when steamvr needs to interpolate frames not reaching the 90 FPS, the ghosting appears again. Somehow the problem is the motion smoothing.

 

With a stable settings if I enable MSAA, it remains stable...

 

I will continue doing more tests.

 

 

I don't have VR, but I ran into the same problem. After a bunch of testing I found out that the CPU (x299 chipset, TB3 disabled) does not boost correctly in windows 10. Did affinity and process lasso shenanigans aswell, to no effect.

My solution, somewhat esoteric, was to make a windows 10 VM to run DCS with a Fedora 30 host. For some reason that workes like a charm, no stutters and smooth gameplay. Went from 25-45fps on bare-metal win10, to 80-90fps (1440p UW) running in the VM...:wassat:

[Nahemoth]

I don't have VR, but I ran into the same problem. After a bunch of testing I found out that the CPU (x299 chipset, TB3 disabled) does not boost correctly in windows 10. Did affinity and process lasso shenanigans aswell, to no effect.

My solution, somewhat esoteric, was to make a windows 10 VM to run DCS with a Fedora 30 host. For some reason that workes like a charm, no stutters and smooth gameplay. Went from 25-45fps on bare-metal win10, to 80-90fps (1440p UW) running in the VM...:wassat:

 

I tried some CPU benchmarks and I get full power of the processor, did you have problems with these kind of tests?