Gen 1.5-2 HMD Roundup for DCS

[Nagilem]

Given what I am seeing on the market from the recently released reviews, this is what I am seeing from the major players - I've ordered them by availability with the first HMDs are those most likely available today vs those that are still in pre-order.

 

O+ - Pros: Great price point; decent clarity / detail (I can read stuff in the cockpit easily and edge to edge clarity is good when the HMD is aligned to eye); Low SDE, good blacks; can be made reasonably comfortable with VRcover and Studio creative head strap; known quantity (plenty of info to get this HMD working with DCS very well)

 

Cons: Anti-SDE filter makes objects in distance (outside cockpit) fuzzy and hard to see (spotting good, visual ID of AC bad), WMR can have tracking / 6DOF issues (easily corrected but a PITA to reset), needs lots of tweaking to get a really good working profile (once you get there though, the headset is pretty darn good); WMR stupidity with Win+y keys and HMD sensor (Annoying but again easily overcome); small sweet spot; not officially available in EU

 

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Pimax 5k+, 8k - Pros: High resolution; Large and configurable FOV; low SDE on 5K+; OLED version available; Info available for configuring a good experience

 

Cons: Expensive; Sound not nativelyincluded with HMD; software still under development and not mature (improving); package does not include lighthouses which adds cost for those without v1 lighthouses; No included controllers; with higher FOV, performance is challenging and requires higher CPU/GPU; delays in receiving ordered HMD

 

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Rift S - Pros: good price; better clarity than o+ (though from what I am seeing in many reviews many still find outside cockpit not very sharp); No WMR or light houses for easy setup; Decent color saturation for LCD; available now;

 

Cons: Fixed IPD can make some have clarity issues; Sound is subpar (headphones probably required for good immersion); While not WMR, tracking has similar Inside Out issues; LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Refresh is 80hz (others are 90+); Some on forums are reporting smaller FOV than CV1

 

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HP Reverb - Pros: best clarity with hi res panels; No WMR or light houses for easy setup; Decent color saturation for LCD; decent comfort; OTE headphones good

 

Cons: Mura issues *; Fixed IPD; small sweet spot *; edge clarity drops off from center *; WMR tracking issues (I think this will be on par with O+); LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Higher res will require beefier CPU/GPU for DCS; Dongle at back of head for connection could be uncomfortable / unwieldy; Production issues with availability delayed; Limited testing so far in DCS (needs someone to receive one who is a regular player on the forums here

 

* only some reviewers had these issues; reports are still conflicting and will need more data points

 

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Valve Index (based on recent impressions) - Pros: Excellent overall build quality; very comfortable for longer sessions; good clarity for LCD panel; Somewhat improved FOV with good edge to edge clarity with eyes aligned to panels; higher refresh; excellent sound quality with Off the Ear speakers; Excellent tracking

 

Cons: Pricey for HMD and lighthouses; LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Harder to setup with light houses; Higher godrays when HMD canted on head; smallish sweet spot; not out yet, and will have limited locales for distribution for summer; Untested so far in DCS

 

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I'm not a fanboi for any of the products above. This is what I am seeing so far based on what I've read or seen in reviews or other threads here. I think each headset will have strengths and weaknesses once they all hit the market later this summer. Any other thoughts or impressions I am missing?

 

Hoping this can help those still on the fence about what to purchase since none of these are really that cheap when you factor in CPU/GPU updates.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Nagilem

[hansangb]

Index and Reverb are all guess right now. And with $4M in kickstarter, P5K+ became a major player almost overnight.

[Nagilem]

Excellent point on Pimax 5k+ - just forgot them in the mix. Will add, though I haven't been watching them as closely. If you own one, can you put a quick pro con list together? Better to have real experience rather than impressions where possible.

 

 

 

And agree - for DCS, Reverb has been limitedly tested (MRTV) and Index is completely untested.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nagilem

[Panthera_Tigris]

Reverb has been limitedly tested (MRTV)

 

There is another Youtuber doing an AMA on the Reverb in WindowsMR subreddit. He plays DCS too and I asked him a bunch of DCS specific questions.

 

He says the sweet spot is pretty wide. No issues with vertical FoV. But DCS is performance heavy so he ran it by reducing the refresh rate to 60 Hz but was still getting some repro with 150% SS and a 2080Ti.

 

Also said he saw no Mura and that the delay was due to some other minor issue.

[Nagilem]

Updated initial post with feedback...

[hansangb]

There is another Youtuber doing an AMA on the Reverb in WindowsMR subreddit. He plays DCS too and I asked him a bunch of DCS specific questions.

 

He says the sweet spot is pretty wide. No issues with vertical FoV. But DCS is performance heavy so he ran it by reducing the refresh rate to 60 Hz but was still getting some repro with 150% SS and a 2080Ti.

 

Also said he saw no Mura and that the delay was due to some other minor issue.

 

 

I wonder why he was using 150%.

[Panthera_Tigris]

I wonder why he was using 150%.

 

He was testing a lot of games so maybe he left it at that.

 

One thing he mentioned is that you can reduce the screen refresh rate from 90 Hz to 60 Hz. So he reduced it to 60 Hz because 60 FPS stable was better than 45 FPS with re-projection to 90. So that is good for performance heavy games where we struggle to get 90 FPS anyway.

[Nagilem]

I would think, given the high level of pixels you could reduce to 1.0 or 1.1in DCS with SteamVR at 100% and get good clarity. I'd want MSAA on with AA to reduce the shimmer of course :).

 

 

 

I run 1.3 with MSAA and AA now with good clarity on lesser pixel density with consistent 40-45 frames almost everywhere (including Dubai with *some* microstuttering). I have lots of other things turned down, but it performs and looks good to me.

 

 

 

If that is the case (higher res with lower PD), the performance could be pretty dang good after the VR Performance update...

 

 

 

Things are getting very interesting around here :D

[Sniper175]

I wonder why he was using 150%.

 

Jaggies.....

[Panthera_Tigris]

My thoughts exactly.

 

At this point I think I might go with the Reverb, with the Index as my backup option. I mostly just play sims so the Index's awesome controllers and high refresh rate would be a waste for me while I could really use the Reverb's better resolution.

 

I do wish it was a SteamVR headset rather than WMR though. Could have used my Vice base stations with the possibility of getting the knuckles controller if needed. SteamVR is unmatched in terms of cross-compatibility and upgradability.

[Fri13]

LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Refresh is 80hz (others are 90+);

 

 

None of those are really cons. As the black is black with the Rift S. And the 80Hz is not a problem, just let not go to "Higher is better" mentality where no one can anymore play a games below 120 FPS because few years ago it was 60 FPS as minimum and for decades before that it was 30 FPS. Yet the same people watch the movies at 24 FPS, from a screen with 60/75 Hz panel, both being out of sync.

 

 

With that (partially failed comparison via camera) results are that Rift S has better blacks than CV1 or HTC Vive.

 

And the 80 Hz is really a huge advantage, because we are talking about really having a good FPS in VR. And it is far easier to have 40 FPS or 80 FPS than 45 or 90 FPS or even 122/144 FPS, and that even with a lower resolution but still great RGB panel that makes more difference than resolution.

Like in the Tested, made the test, The Valve Index can't even render the Steam home at native resolution at the max 122/144 FPS, but you drop frames badly.

 

 

Here so many is ready to throw all the frame rates out of the window, to get a device that has higher resolution, that they can't use because their hardware like 2080Ti can't render it.

 

That is just crazy. Reality check is required for many.

 

That makes the Rift S the best choice for almost everyone.

- Colors great

- Black is black

- Higher definition so it ain't such problem anymore

- Great framerates

- Much smaller hardware resource requirements

- Much smaller price

- No external sensors

 

What are the real cons?

- Audio system doesn't have strong bass, but someone here said that flying Hornet was good experience regardless. And you always can use earbuds to make better audio.

- No DP adjustment for those who are way below or above the limits, and that range is big!

- Narrower FOV than ie. Valve Index. But that ain't such huge deal really.

[Harlikwin]

There is another Youtuber doing an AMA on the Reverb in WindowsMR subreddit. He plays DCS too and I asked him a bunch of DCS specific questions.

 

He says the sweet spot is pretty wide. No issues with vertical FoV. But DCS is performance heavy so he ran it by reducing the refresh rate to 60 Hz but was still getting some repro with 150% SS and a 2080Ti.

 

Also said he saw no Mura and that the delay was due to some other minor issue.

 

He's running 150% SS on that?! (which I guess would be like 1.25 PD in DCS) which would a few million more pixels than native plus supersampling overhead... And it still ran pre-VR enhancment DCS ok... It would be good to know if he was running any PD or MSAA and what his shadow settings were, given that those are the current "killers" for frame rate.

 

I'm surprised (pleasantly) to hear you can adjust WMR refresh rates?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Nagilem]

@Fri13 - Thanks for your thoughts on the Rift S. These things are subjective, and for some, what is listed as a CON just isn't. But that doesn't mean it isn't a CON for someone else. I've tried to capture what I am hearing are overall impressions from the many sources I've read /seen (Reddit, here, Youtube reviews, etc). None of this is definitive, and every HMD has some deficiency, we just know less right now about the Reverb and Index because the info is limited.

 

If you have purchased a Rift S, or are wanting to purchase a Rift S, then congrats to you! You've made a great choice for your needs. Hopefully what is here can help someone else make the right choice for their needs as well.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nagilem

[Panthera_Tigris]

He's running 150% SS on that?! (which I guess would be like 1.25 PD in DCS) which would a few million more pixels than native plus supersampling overhead... And it still ran pre-VR enhancment DCS ok... It would be good to know if he was running any PD or MSAA and what his shadow settings were, given that those are the current "killers" for frame rate.

 

I'm surprised (pleasantly) to hear you can adjust WMR refresh rates?

 

 

Well, his biggest advantage was that 60 Hz thing IMO. If you can hit 60 Hz, you dont need to bother with repro in WMR and that also saves some computational horsepower. In other HMDs, that threshold has to be 90 (or 80 with the new Oculus).

 

Also, he did dip below 60 sometimes which kicked in repro. He said that was bad because the repro tech is not as good as Occulus'. I am not sure how bad it is because WMR actually uses SteamVR repro tech.

 

Exact quote:

 

VERY good points - and yes, I'm sorry I worded my response very poorly as you're totally right. I've asked for clarification from HP as to whether it's basically underclocking the panels to 60Hz or just capping the frame rate at 60. I'm very confident it's underclocking it as if it was just capping the frame rate it would still need to interpolate the image to make it 90Hz and I'm seeing nothing like that at all. What I've noticed is that if you run at 90 and reprojection kicks in, dropping it to 45 the image is horrible - far worse than Oculus' tech. So I had to drop my image settings quite a lot to hit that 90 all the time - but in 60hz mode I don't have those issues - save for when I can't hit 60 and it drops to 30 - which SUCKS! D:

[Vullcan]

That makes the Rift S the best choice for almost everyone.

 

It makes the best choice for almost everyone on a budget. And budget doesn't mean poor, maybe you just had a kid, maybe you're using a crap HOTAS and need to upgrade that first. Whatever it is, budgets are responsible.

 

If your budget is less restrictive...

 

-The index sensors give it superior tracking, that's indisputable. Spending a few minutes setting them up is a one time event. When the sun goes down or if you game in a basement, theres no need to make the room bright if you don't want to.

-The ergonomics and comfort on the index are superior, thats important for long flights.

-The audio is better

-The IPD is tailored to you, dial in your sweet spot (using all those ergonomic features) and *bam* the FOV is HUGE. Having edge to edge clarity is important when flying a combat simulator... not sure why anyone would disagree with that.

 

The Rift S has better integration with DCS (currently), Wags confirmed they didn't have index to develop with, and Oculus home is a slightly better experience compared to Steam VR (currently).

 

The only time I would recommend anyone get a Rift S is if they cannot afford or are not willing to save for an Index (or reverb) AND the PC hardware to take advantage of it.

 

We may not be able to drive 90FPS constantly today, but thats the goal, and I'd rather be ready for it when it comes. High FPS with a refresh rate to match flying is much more pleasant than being locked at something low like you're on a Playstation or Xbox.

[Nagilem]

just curious here - if I have 2160x2160 rather than say 1440x1600, could I get away with a PD of 1.0 or 1.1 and have a decent experience? What about shimmer? MSAA at that res make a diff without tanking performance? What about AA?

 

 

My hope would be to lower the PD (maybe 1-1.2 with 100% SS in SteamVR) and still get good visuals because of the higher res panels, then get the MSAA and AA to address the shimmer and jagged lines. Sadly, Framerate is the one spec that rules them all. I don't like watching DCS as a slide show :D.

 

 

 

Looking forward to someone actually getting a unit to test...

[Panthera_Tigris]

just curious here - if I have 2160x2160 rather than say 1440x1600, could I get away with a PD of 1.0 or 1.1 and have a decent experience?

 

 

 

Of course!! All that super sampling does is change what colour the existing pixel displays. So instead of a stark contrast, you have a gradual transition between objects. Having more real pixels is so so much better than just having more SS. In fact, with enough real pixels you don't even need SS.

 

Same thing for the shimmer. It also happens because of low pixel density.

 

Supersampling, anti-aliasing etc. are all just different algorithmic techniques to compensate for low resolutions. The higher the native resolution, the less of that you need.

[Harlikwin]

Supersampling, anti-aliasing etc. are all just different algorithmic techniques to compensate for low resolutions. The higher the native resolution, the less of that you need.

 

Which is why the reverb "should" be better at its native res.

 

I wonder how much performance penalty he got by running it at 150% Steam SS.

 

Hopefully with the 50% improvment 60hz/fps should be doable on a 2080ti.

 

I've heard that the reprojection for WMR isn't great, but lots of people were running O+ headsets and I very much doubt they weren't using reprojection (i.e. getting 90fps).

[Panthera_Tigris]

I've heard that the reprojection for WMR isn't great, but lots of people were running O+ headsets and I very much doubt they weren't using reprojection (i.e. getting 90fps).

 

Yea, I am not sure if they have any of their own Microsoft repro techs but I know for a fact that they can use SteamVR's algorithm.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/3229520292644260853

[Nagilem]

@harlikwin - I don't think there is a settable option for repro on WMR. At least not one that I have found.

 

 

One does have motionvector in SteamVR (which I think is a repro option with lua file changes in steam), which actually makes a big difference. I get locked frames at 45, but the experience is reasonably smooth. I posted the link for it in one of the other recent threads.

[Supmua]

Remember that you don't always have to run games on the Reverb at full native res. I do game at 1080p or 1440p on my 4K TV sometimes in order to get high frame rate and it's not bad, and with the current gen headset people would always upsampling anyway. Would you run 2k res with 2x upsampling on a 2k screen or would you rather run a 4k res on a 4k screen? At least with Reverb you will have that choice.

 

Having said that, the Index is my first pick since it's the most well-rounded headset this time and I don't just play sims. If I only play DCS, my choice would've been the headset with the highest resolution/image fidelity that I can afford, and Reverb would be it.

[VirusAM]

Yea, I am not sure if they have any of their own Microsoft repro techs but I know for a fact that they can use SteamVR's algorithm.

 

 

 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/3229520292644260853

 

 

 

Yes they have. Motion reprojection is a Windows Mixed Reality equivalent of the Oculus ASW and Steam VR motion smoothing.

[Harlikwin]

Remember that you don't always have to run games on the Reverb at full native res. I do game at 1080p or 1440p on my 4K TV sometimes in order to get high frame rate and it's not bad, and with the current gen headset people would always upsampling anyway. Would you run 2k res with 2x upsampling on a 2k screen or would you rather run a 4k res on a 4k screen? At least with Reverb you will have that choice.

 

Having said that, the Index is my first pick since it's the most well-rounded headset this time and I don't just play sims. If I only play DCS, my choice would've been the headset with the highest resolution/image fidelity that I can afford, and Reverb would be it.

 

+1 on this. I pretty much play DCS and a few other sims. I've tried the other VR games, but not really my cup of tea, so for me its an academic choice.

[hansangb]

Excellent point on Pimax 5k+ - just forgot them in the mix. Will add, though I haven't been watching them as closely. If you own one, can you put a quick pro con list together? Better to have real experience rather than impressions where possible.

 

And agree - for DCS, Reverb has been limitedly tested (MRTV) and Index is completely untested.

 

I can do that. The review I mean. But I'll wait until my Reverb arrives *maybe* end of next week - but highly doubtful. More than likely, it'll get here when I'm on the road for a business trip....:mad: :D

[hansangb]

Remember that you don't always have to run games on the Reverb at full native res. I do game at 1080p or 1440p on my 4K TV sometimes in order to get high frame rate and it's not bad, and with the current gen headset people would always upsampling anyway. Would you run 2k res with 2x upsampling on a 2k screen or would you rather run a 4k res on a 4k screen? At least with Reverb you will have that choice.

 

Having said that, the Index is my first pick since it's the most well-rounded headset this time and I don't just play sims. If I only play DCS, my choice would've been the headset with the highest resolution/image fidelity that I can afford, and Reverb would be it.

 

 

I don't believe you can play VR in any resolution other than the native one. At least for CV1, Odyssey, Vive and P5K+. There's no way to change the resolution, and when you change it in-game, it's just ignored.