CASE III Thunder storm

[Fonz_408]

Hey guys I've been training to land on the Carrier with a Case III in the Heavy Thunderstorm and it seems impossible? How do real navy guys land in such bad weather.. I'd just like to point out I can nail, I, II, III, with a 3 wire 80% of the time even with default heavy rain, but a thunderstorm is impossible even if I make the mission and have the Carrier heading into the wind..

[MrReynolds]

I recorded this last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4cqDep0nnM&feature=youtu.be

There IS lightning, DON'T think there's nasty winds however. :music_whistling:

 

I think when I inquired about this last year the general consensus was...."if you gotta land................"

Edited July 4, 2019 by MrReynolds

[Fonz_408]

I recorded this last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4cqDep0nnM&feature=youtu.be

There IS lightning, DON'T think there's nasty winds however. :music_whistling:

 

I think when I inquired about this last year the general consensus was...."if you gotta land................"

 

 

Yer I could do that no problem, there's no wind try it with heavy Thunderstorm winds.. impossible!!!

[Kazius]

Game doesn't simulate things as randomly as it is in real life. You can have Thunderstorms without waters forcing a pitching deck. You can have high headwind without a pitching deck. You can have a pitching deck without high winds.

 

I went Salmon fishing on the West side of Vancouver Island out of Uclulet Port and it was a calm day with sun. However, there had been a storm 2 days earlier and the waters were so bad the boat I was in was pitching upwards at times 45 degrees. Wasn't fun reeling in a 28 lb Salmon when the back of the boat is in a downward motion and feels like your going to get lifted off the boat.

 

Point is, landing a jet on a pitching deck is what is hard, not the thunderstorm part unless you have fog / cloud layer at sea level.

[maxTRX]

Yer I could do that no problem, there's no wind try it with heavy Thunderstorm winds.. impossible!!!

 

Yes it's possible, just stay in the middle of glide slope oscillations (funky/unstabilized CILS gs:noexpression:) until you see the ball and "drop lights + c/l". The ball seems to be stabilized... then again, it's not that precise in the sim. Couple of times I could swear the ball moved with the deck... then again I swear all the time!

Now that I think about it, I've never seen any "official" response to questions related to this.

Hopefully the "Carrier Module" will have all the fixes.

PS. With headwind up to 6 kts the gs is fairly stable. At 10 kts it moves up and down a lot.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Gripes323

[Fonz_408]

Yes it's possible, just stay in the middle of glide slope oscillations (funky/unstabilized CILS gs:noexpression:) until you see the ball and "drop lights + c/l". The ball seems to be stabilized... then again, it's not that precise in the sim. Couple of times I could swear the ball moved with the deck... then again I swear all the time!

Now that I think about it, I've never seen any "official" response to questions related to this.

Hopefully the "Carrier Module" will have all the fixes.

PS. With headwind up to 6 kts the gs is fairly stable. At 10 kts it moves up and down a lot.

 

Yes well with the heavy Thunderstorm I think the wind is 32kts, hints as to why it's so hard.. Oh and you can't see the Carrier till your on it lol

[ravenzino]

Tried last night. Everything on the HUD was wobbling around! Finally saw the deck light when I was like 20 meters behind the rundown, while I was also like 10 meters below the deck at the same time...... ended up with a good bath of course... lol

 

Got a new target now with my Hornet!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fonz_408]

Tried last night. Everything on the HUD was wobbling around! Finally saw the deck light when I was like 20 meters behind the rundown, while I was also like 10 meters below the deck at the same time...... ended up with a good bath of course... lol

 

Got a new target now with my Hornet!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Lol I know right, i pride myself on my carrier landing, and can't wait for the new carrier mod with it's grades but landing in this Thunder storm is bloody hard.. Im going to test the F14 with it's ACLS and see it can land it.... If not I give up :joystick:

[maxTRX]

Yes well with the heavy Thunderstorm I think the wind is 32kts, hints as to why it's so hard.. Oh and you can't see the Carrier till your on it lol

 

Well, it wasn't my idea:smilewink:

Let's start on the moderate side: Gusty wind 40 kts, "almost" lined up with FB, carrier moving @ 12kts... later on I set the boat to 22, it worked the same.

 

On the deck I got slammed around so hard it knocked the lights out of me twice! Approach wasn't really that bad. I set the flaps to half. I did this whole thing in daytime since I wanted to see what was going on around me. I couldn't see the deck during the final part of approach but I could see the ball clearly... and it did seem to be stabilized or LSO's were using MOVLAS:D

 

https://youtu.be/6AzgzRIhk60

[majapahit]

I doubt if zero (0) viz and extreme turbulence can be considered 'landing conditions'.

 

All landing operations - in peace time - would simply be stopped/abandoned, for every landing be considered 'a danger to the ship as a whole' (and one is moved to the 'necessary collateral' category).

 

Then again, in our DCS sim, with the caveat that 'pilots are not allowed to operate their night vision goggles in the final stage of the landing', so I think to have read,

 

I would suggest that in an (ultimate) simulated emergency/a Midway situation or in a DCS simulation,

 

you can land in these conditions with you night vision goggles switched on.

Edited July 7, 2019 by majapahit

[DeathAngel1]

I doubt if zero (0) viz and extreme turbulence can be considered 'landing conditions'.

 

All landing operations - in peace time - would simply be stopped/abandoned, for every landing be considered 'a danger to the ship as a whole' (and one is moved to the 'necessary collateral' category).

 

Then again, in our DCS sim, with the caveat that 'pilots are not allowed to operate their night vision goggles in the final stage of the landing', so I think to have read,

 

I would suggest that in an (ultimate) simulated emergency/a Midway situation or in a DCS simulation,

 

you can land in these conditions with you night vision goggles switched on.

 

 

Nice said, I was wondering also who nobody uses NVG during night landing in bad weather conditions, they would be very, very useful.

[majapahit]

Nice said, I was wondering also who nobody uses NVG during night landing in bad weather conditions, they would be very, very useful.

It's considered ruining your sense of depth I think it was explained, thus too dangerous.

Then again between depth and (perhaps) certain death, then the question is, now what.

Edited July 7, 2019 by majapahit

[DeathAngel1]

It's considered ruining your sense of depth I think it was explained, thus too dangerous.

Then again between depth and (perhaps) certain death, that is the question.

 

?

 

You sure about that? Because I use them since A-10C times (almost 8 years) and I have never crashed when landing in night, using NVGs.

[majapahit]

?

 

You sure about that?

That was implied, just the messenger (they'll have a extra chopper throttle up? In WWII, planes that were a danger, the pilot bails out next to the ship, also during Vietnam I think I remember)

Edited July 7, 2019 by majapahit

[Lex Talionis]

Real life you can not trap with NVGs on your helmet. It takes aprox 30 mins for your eyes to adjust back to low light conditions, so pilots typicaly remove them 30 mins prior to landing. This means flying approaches un aided. Blue water with no where else to go, ya land the aircraft in whatever conditions the boat is in. What's more, the lens is not NVG "friendly " and blooms, among other problems.

 

As far as the difficulty in flying the approach in turbulence, all that can be done is to speculate. I will say, the emphasis on what wire is caught in the DCS comunity tends to suggest the quality of the preceding basic air work can be lacking as long as the 3 wire is caught. Coupled with the admitted difficulty on the approach enforcers the assumption that basic air work skills are lacking. In real life what wire is caught does not play into landing grades at all, grades are based on the quality of the pass alone. For what it is worth, practice holding +/- 100 feet from desired altitudes, +/-10 deg desired headings and +/-10kts from desired airspeed to hone BAW. When 3/4 to on the ball accept no error at all as best you can.

 

Hope this helps :)

 

Edit: ... my apologies if that sounded overly critical, trying to be objective with something subjective. I have no delusions of grandeur, i am simply very aware that "pilots" tend to blame everything else first, excluding themselves, when figuring out what is wrong with their flying ... ;)

Edited July 9, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[TargetDrone]

The carrier does not have NVG compatible lighting. All you would see through NGVs is a large bright blob from all the deck lighting. You won't see the line up lights or the meatball. The marines do fly with NVGs to the deck for the LHD/LHA helicopter carriers and those ships have special lights that will not wash out the NVG's.

[DeathAngel1]

Real life you can not trap with NVGs on your helmet. It takes aprox 30 mins for your eyes to adjust back to low light conditions, so pilots typicaly remove them 30 mins prior to landing. This means flying approaches un aided. Blue water with no where else to go, ya land the aircraft in whatever conditions the boat is in. What's more, the lens is not NVG "friendly " and blooms, among other problems.

 

As far as the difficulty in flying the approach in turbulence, all that can be done is to speculate. I will say, the emphasis on what wire is caught in the DCS comunity tends to suggest the quality of the preceding basic air work can be lacking as long as the 3 wire is caught. Coupled with the admitted difficulty on the approach enforcers the assumption that basic air work skills are lacking. In real life what wire is caught does not play into landing grades at all, grades are based on the quality of the pass alone. For what it is worth, practice holding +/- 100 feet from desired altitudes, +/-10 deg desired headings and +/-10kts from desired airspeed to hone BAW. When 3/4 to on the ball accept no error at all as best you can.

 

Hope this helps :)

 

Edit: ... my apologies if that sounded overly critical, trying to be objective with something subjective. I have no delusions of grandeur, i am simply very aware that "pilots" tend to blame everything else first, excluding themselves, when figuring out what is wrong with their flying ... ;)

 

Thanks for cleaning this...so Hornet pilots do not use NVGs in night-landing? Ok , I understand if night is Clear and you can see carrier's runway...but what if there are extremely bad weather conditions - nightime, clouds, storm, and you cant see anything?

[bbrz]

I understand if night is Clear and you can see carrier's runway...but what if there are extremely bad weather conditions - nightime, clouds, storm, and you cant see anything?

You can't see 'anything' only when there is extremely dense fog and even then there's usually 50-100ft vertical and a few hundred feet horizontal visibility so that you can spot a few lights.

When it's windy/stormy it's very seldom foggy at the same time.

Furthermore during nighttime runway lights are easier to spot in low viz conditions than during daytime.

 

But if you absolutely don't see anything and you are commited to land, then you do so without visual cues, since you are already flying on instrument in bad weather.

 

On the CRJ we used to fly manual CAT III approaches down to a minimum of 50ft and 200m RVR.

No fun but doable and contrary to a carrier landing you need to flare with basically no visual cues.

 

That's about the worst viz you can land at IRL without breaking the law.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe_pEK_kRVw

Edited July 10, 2019 by bbrz

[G B]

Thanks for cleaning this...so Hornet pilots do not use NVGs in night-landing? Ok , I understand if night is Clear and you can see carrier's runway...but what if there are extremely bad weather conditions - nightime, clouds, storm, and you cant see anything?

 

You wouldn’t want to wear NVG for landing. The ship’s lights are not NVG compatible. Looking at clouds and fog through NVG are worse. The NVG does not offer any depth perception. Finally, the force of the trap could send the NVG flying off the helmet (possibly through the glass HUD).

 

NVG is not used for night carrier landing ever. In fact, never used for the night approach at all. In the USN, goggles aren’t worn for night takeoff or landing from an airfield. From what I understand the USMC does allow that.

[Sierra99]

?

 

You sure about that? Because I use them since A-10C times (almost 8 years) and I have never crashed when landing in night, using NVGs.

 

As a person who has operated in a military aircraft using real NVGs I can safely say what people do in DCS has little to no real bearing on what happens in the real world.

 

It is important to remember...most if not all cautions and warnings associated with the operation of an aircraft are the direct result of breaking something...or killing someone...