[W.I.P]Targeting pod during night operations

[Shotsx74]

I like to fly at night and I’ve noticed that using the Targeting pod during night operations, while using the FLIR, doesn’t really make targets stick out as one would think.

 

At about 26k feet and only when I’m right over the target area, do targets start popping up. Otherwise the DDI is basically black or green depending on WHT or BHT is selected. My night conditions are pretty dark, usually a little bit of a moon present.

 

Are there any addition controls that are needed to be turned on at night operations or just the normal procedure? I do believe we should be able to see things just as we would during day operations using the flir.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Shotsx74

[Shotsx74]

Posted in wrong section.

[Shotsx74]

[W.I.P]Targeting pod during night operations

 

I like to fly at night and I’ve noticed that using the Targeting pod during night operations, while using the FLIR, doesn’t really make targets stick out as one would think.

 

At about 26k feet and only when I’m right over the target area, do targets start popping up. Otherwise the DDI is basically black or green depending on WHT or BHT is selected. My night conditions are pretty dark, usually a little bit of a moon present.

 

Are there any addition controls that are needed to be turned on at night operations or just the normal procedure? I do believe we should be able to see things just as we would during day operations using the flir.

 

The TGP is all weather day/night.

[Shotsx74]

Oh nvm it appears this was moved. Any reason this was moved since it was posted in bugs? The TGP should be able to be utilized at night at long distances just like the A-10....

[hornet1a]

It’s probably related to an already general reported bug:static objects are only visible (will pop up) at around 10 km,ground vehicules and AI aircrafts are visible beyound that.

[Shotsx74]

It isn't static objects, it is actual live targets, tanks, SAMs, etc.

[StandingCow]

Had this issue on GAW the other day... I knew almost exactly where the targets were but the live ones were invisible, the only targets I could even see were the destroyed ones.

[Harlikwin]

Lol... its almost like a real thermal system... not magic...

.

[StandingCow]

Lol... its almost like a real thermal system... not magic...

.

 

What?

 

 

A real thermal system objects at night would be even more visible especially with running engines.

[KTFBGB]

I would think this issue is because it is very early. The gain and other settings and auto focus are not modeled yet.

 

The only reason objects are somewhat more visible at night has nothing to do with how bright it is. The only difference is that during the day the sun heats the ground and surrounding objects. So there is less of a temperature differential. However things like the ground and rocks loose heat slowly. In real life, thermal imaging systems have different settings you can mess with to adjust the sensitivity and now most have auto calibration function. The only real limiting factor is how bright the user screen is to see it. So if the sun is at your back and reflecting off the screen it will be harder to see than at night when you don’t have light sources messing with the screen. Just like using your phone during the day.

[NineLine]

I am not seeing an issue, could you possibly post a screenshot for me, this is what I am seeing (not this is the test version and draw distances are better right now)

 

 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

 

you will hopefully see changes to object and static distance in coming patches, which will help with some objects popping into view.

[Harlikwin]

What?

 

 

A real thermal system objects at night would be even more visible especially with running engines.

 

Yeah, so as it turns out thermal is not the magic predator vision most people want it to be, I've got a few decades of experience at looking at things using various NV and thermal devices. As for your "running engine" canard, tell you what, why don't you put your hand on the top of the hood of your car, how hot is that? Cuz thats actually what the thermal "sees".And you are sort of right that at certain times of night when the thermal background goes down it is easier to spot warm things. But distance attenuation as well as atmospherics play a big role in what you see. As does the actual band MWIR vs LWIR that you are trying to look for objects because attenuation is different between the two, as is the "thermal signature". Then you have the actual detector resolution issue to consider or if its a cooled vs uncooled detector. And of course there is the whole thermal signature of the background you are looking at to consider. At this point, DCS thermal modeling is mostly non-existant and for the most part I think its way too easy to spot things and more importantly identify them compared to IRL, I'm not even gonna get into the whole smoke issue. DCS NVG "modeling" has similar issues that are pretty glaringly obvious to anyone who has actually used NODs..

 

I'm not even gonna get into the whole thing about thermal camo techniques that an actual modern army would use or the whole "hey lets park a bunch of running vehicles in the middle of the field so Ace Fighter Bro can have an easy time bombing them" aspect to "ultra realistic" DCS.

 

And yes I know there is a new thermal model coming, and I hope it addresses at least some of these issues.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Harlikwin

[StandingCow]

Yeah, so as it turns out thermal is not the magic predator vision most people want it to be, I've got a few decades of experience at looking at things using various NV and thermal devices. As for your "running engine" canard, tell you what, why don't you put your hand on the top of the hood of your car, how hot is that? Cuz thats actually what the thermal "sees".And you are sort of right that at certain times of night when the thermal background goes down it is easier to spot warm things. But distance attenuation as well as atmospherics play a big role in what you see. As does the actual band MWIR vs LWIR that you are trying to look for objects because attenuation is different between the two, as is the "thermal signature". Then you have the actual detector resolution issue to consider or if its a cooled vs uncooled detector. And of course there is the whole thermal signature of the background you are looking at to consider. At this point, DCS thermal modeling is mostly non-existant and for the most part I think its way too easy to spot things and more importantly identify them compared to IRL, I'm not even gonna get into the whole smoke issue. DCS NVG "modeling" has similar issues that are pretty glaringly obvious to anyone who has actually used NODs..

 

I'm not even gonna get into the whole thing about thermal camo techniques that an actual modern army would use or the whole "hey lets park a bunch of running vehicles in the middle of the field so Ace Fighter Bro can have an easy time bombing them" aspect to "ultra realistic" DCS.

 

And yes I know there is a new thermal model coming, and I hope it addresses at least some of these issues.

 

 

Not asking for magic, just realism. How it is now isn't realistic, which it sounds like you agree with.