Better cockpit decals

[bones1014]

When can we get a better cockpit skin? It's so hard to read a lot of the panels without zooming in.

[fl0w]

There is a mod available in the ED user files section for a cleaner F-14B cockpit. The current cockpit is realistic.

[bones1014]

There is a mod available in the ED user files section for a cleaner F-14B cockpit. The current cockpit is realistic.

 

Realistic if the crew chief never did touch up on the paint and let it go to hell! I've crewed jets and they never looked this bad.

[fl0w]

Realistic if the crew chief never did touch up on the paint and let it go to hell! I've crewed jets and they never looked this bad.

 

May I ask, were you a crew chief for naval-based operations aircraft, or land-based?

 

A small explanation, from my view and behalf, from what I would "logically" see fit.

 

1. Since the "saltwater corrodes and chips paint" argument has been overused now, we'll also say that since if maintenance did apply new paint, it would only be a top layer effect applied onto already existent paint. Assuming if the argument still applies, that paint would then chip and cause a worse effect. Otherwise, the paint would thicken and make it more difficult to read, just not on a "grunge" level. On stuff like the knobs or switches where it may be some shiny metal, the oils from the fingers will excrete onto it and give it a dark-like shine as far as I have seen from images.

 

2. The cockpit was photo scanned from a Pacific Museum in the United States on the west coast, decades later after retirement. The cockpit is going to naturally get things like dust and people from all over will be touching parts, but the cockpit does have to be kept under restored conditions. So a factor of after service would not apply too well.

 

3. The cockpit itself is old. It may not have been taking care as properly as it would've been under modern times with the Superbugs and Vipers, but that would be excluding the environmental factor as well as who was taking care of it.

 

I may be wrong on some of these points, but by my way of seeing it, I would declare it "realistic" solely on the environment and who is taking care of it.

[freehand]

 

2. The cockpit was photo scanned from a Pacific Museum in the United States on the west coast, decades later after retirement. The cockpit is going to naturally get things like dust and people from all over will be touching parts, but the cockpit does have to be kept under restored conditions. So a factor of after service would not apply too well.

 

.

 

lol what's that got to do with the price of eggs.

[lunaticfringe]

It's all good though, because their sme's have passed the cockpit off as realistic. Their job is to know where the switches are blindfolded.

The maintainers job is to look at each caption and ensure its readable.

 

Their SME and test group includes a number of former maintainers, rather than just pilots.

 

If your job was trying to find who was right, and knowing the DoD budget for maintenance, who would you put your trust in more?

 

People whom actually pulled F-14s apart and maintained them operationally, rather than the opinion of those who work over Eagles and Vipers or civil aircraft.

 

The navy maintenance guys know it...

 

Run with that to make yourself feel better while waiting on a braille cockpit update.

[viper2097]

You may have to take the difference between real life and a flat screen, or even worse, VR into account.

 

Take a buisness card. Lay it between your legs on the chair you are sitting right now.

I'm pretty sure youc an read everything without any problem. Just with a glimpse.

 

Now look at the Tacan in the F-14.

 

The position is probably as far away from your eyes as the buisness card. However, in DCS everyone (flat screen and VR users) have problems to read that. While I gues it was never a problem in real life.

 

Same for the labels on all the knobs and switches.

Beside some missing textures and WIP's, I'm pretty sure that if you would sit in the real, scanned cockpit, you may have no problems to read any labels.

I'm perfectly fine with the readability (and I use VR) and be very happy with the cockpit.

 

However, it would still be great if a responsible person (from that timeframe) who "owned" a cat would like to say somethign about it.

[fl0w]

I do not think when I speak for this on behalf of the people who enjoy the Tomcat, that nobody excludes the factor of realism from active input of an SME or real pilot of the aircraft. If we are going to use the duck typing for this situation, where it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it is a duck, on the F-14B itself, I would give them respect to speak for more complicated subjects and overall aesthetics to how it would be in average maintenance. I can perfectly understand the thought of HB may have been exaggerating some effects for reasons of marketing, but this is overall an iconic aircraft that was a fleet defense fighter that reigned in air-to-air superiority, I am pretty confident in my belief that people who fly this want it to be as authentic and accurate as possible.

 

Of course, nobody is saying the F-14B Tomcat cockpit was never clean, but this is the cockpit you would see after years of service and/or out of the part factories. Considering the time and era of this aircraft, I would be almost certain to say that regardless of whoever maintained any F-14B, you will not see it being kept as 100% mint condition, or maybe even within 85%. It's going to wear, and tear, and build up grunge.

[lunaticfringe]

You may have to take the difference between real life and a flat screen, or even worse, VR into account.

 

Or, those who choose to stick a screen with half the brightness of a flat screen (and a quarter of RL) need to accept that they've made a choice, and must wait for ED to unequivocally fix the IC problem for modders to have their wares be 100% legitimized for across the board multiplayer.

 

Now look at the Tacan in the F-14.

 

The position is probably as far away from your eyes as the buisness card. However, in DCS everyone (flat screen and VR users) have problems to read that. While I gues it was never a problem in real life.

 

I have no problem reading the tacan on a 15" screen at nearly 3' at normal zoom FoV, which is my regular arrangement.

 

Every player in DCS has a different usage case. Example: most don't run 2.2 gamma, which is the point for which all the quality textures are authored for based on RL. That causes legibility and visibility problems, but is solely based on a user hardware issue based on their own choices. Altering default textures from a realistic basis to fit a percentage who have problems based on their own decisions (which a developer has zero control over) while damaging the quality of life for others is not a justifiable solution, artistic proclivities or not. By the same token, they've stated they're open to permitting outsiders to produce fixes that work at the texture level for their particular usage cases and are engaging ED to get this done with valid IC; that's exceedingly fair and deserves a far lower amount of derision than this subject is getting.

 

Meanwhile, they're getting insulted as though their SMEs experiences are BS for artistic decisions they're openly willing to let others alter, while hung up waiting on the environment owner to make it happen. That they choose to not alter them directly is holding to their own standard for what they intended to produce; their trying to work through the IC issue on behalf of the community is far more fair than they need to be. Accordingly, people need to relax.

 

However, it would still be great if a responsible person (from that timeframe) who "owned" a cat would like to say somethign about it.

 

Former F-14 AT states unequivocally on the qualitative nature of the HB pit and how line jets got into such condition.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4019213&postcount=85

[draconus]

When can we get a better cockpit skin? It's so hard to read a lot of the panels without zooming in.

 

Why would you expect to read it with the default FoV? Do you then see things in game displayed at correct angular size as in RL?

[bones1014]

All of this discussion is pointless because it doesn't answer my original question. I'd like to have the ability to use a more legible cockpit. It's not hard and it's already been done by users but it breaks integrity for multiplayer games.

Edited August 26, 2019 by bones1014

[bones1014]

Why would you expect to read it with the default FoV? Do you then see things in game displayed at correct angular size as in RL?

 

Duh of course I zoom in but level of zoom to read some of this stuff is like having your face smashed to the panel.

[draconus]

Duh of course I zoom in but level of zoom to read some of this stuff is like having your face smashed to the panel.

 

Then help the devs and point them to "some of this stuff" that is not readable.

[Nooch]

Please spare this guy your comments of "ohh why you even want this" or whatever. He would like to have cleaner looking labels that's it. Why make such a fuss? There's nothing outrageous about his request.

[viper2097]

No, there is nothing wrong about that.

 

But the repeating "I can't read the labels" discussion / justification is annoying.

All labels are readable. Most good and without problems.

Not readable ones are WIP or still missing. Also the cat does not have sooo many knobs and you should know where they are and what they are doing without any labels at all. People who are complaining had mostly not even 10h in the cockpit.

 

I think HB did an awesome.job on the cockpit and the immersion great.

I don't know it, but Incould believe that the wear is not thar far off as someones woild like to have it.

[IronMike]

Hi Guys, there is already a thread running for this discussion, please read up there and continue discussing there, thank you.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238051