TGP - steer view to way-/targetpoint?

[Destinate]

heyho,

 

is it possible to steer the tgp camera to a specific place (e.g. waypoint)?

[crazycloud97]

Are you referring to to slewing the FLIR on the Litening pod? I also had this question.. I believe it is something along the lines of making the TGP your SOI and using something on the Hotas (maybe RDR Up/Down/left/Right?) but I haven’t figured it out for sure.

 

 

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[crazycloud97]

Upon reading another thread, you need to be in CCRP to slew the FLIR in TGP.

 

 

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[Destinate]

Im not talking about manual slewing the tgp, I wan't to know if it is possible to auto slew the tgp to the active steeringpoint via hotas

[panph90]

yes, you can.

Just undesignate any active target while SOI on camera, and change the waypoint with the arrow in the UFC. The camera will point toward the steerpoint.

 

PS: is it possible to do that even with the F18 targetin pod? I've never been able to do that and it could be so useful...

[Shimmergloom667]

Usually in the F-16, the TGP is slaved to the SPI, which in turn is by default the active STPT. Normally, TMS down commands a return from a point / area track back to being slaved to the SPI.

[Destinate]

k thanks for the answer, gonna check that later! :)

[85th_Maverick]

It seems that after the latest updates I cannot return the TGP to point straight ahead using TMS down as it used to be. Now the damn tgp remains stuck on a waypoint and all I can do is to start moveing it around from the active waypoint, but I can't seem to be able to reset it to point forward anymore. What has changed to not allow the TMS down to bring it forward anymore?

[Viking 1-1]

Just push sp for Snowplow mode and you are looking forward.

[Shimmergloom667]

It seems that after the latest updates I cannot return the TGP to point straight ahead using TMS down as it used to be. Now the damn tgp remains stuck on a waypoint and all I can do is to start moveing it around from the active waypoint, but I can't seem to be able to reset it to point forward anymore. What has changed to not allow the TMS down to bring it forward anymore?

 

TMS down returns it to SPI, which is steerpoint, which is correct behaviour.

[crispy12]

Just push sp for Snowplow mode and you are looking forward.

 

Doesnt work for me 80% of the time

It's erratic

[85th_Maverick]

On 8/30/2020 at 11:15 PM, Shimmergloom667 said:

 

TMS down returns it to SPI, which is steerpoint, which is correct behaviour.

Copy! So it should point to the waypoint, but the snowplow mode is indeed erratic as Crispy12 confirms. It always points randomly whenever you re-engage snowplow mode by pressing SP. How can we remake the TGP point forward if we need to? Thanks!

[Machalot]

19 minutes ago, 85th_Maverick said:

Copy! So it should point to the waypoint, but the snowplow mode is indeed erratic as Crispy12 confirms. It always points randomly whenever you re-engage snowplow mode by pressing SP. How can we remake the TGP point forward if we need to? Thanks!

Erratically and randomly? I haven't had any problems recently. What are you seeing? 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Machalot

[85th_Maverick]

21 minutes ago, Machalot said:

Erratically and randomly? I haven't had any problems recently. What are you seeing? 

 

Ok, I didn't quite explain it correctly and I didn't test enough to see that it actually always points forward, but..., with a bug (for which I agreed with "crispy12") that won't align your HUD indication with the current TGP orientation! After, let's say, you press TMS down and the TGP is slaved to the current waypoint, the vertical bar on the HUD (I usually use CCRP) is also pointed towards the waypoint. Now if you press SP, the TGP does point forward, but the HUD indication remains in an "apparent" random location (probably still stuck on the waypoint) and doesn't show you the square target designator where the TGP points at. The TGP is indeed now looking forward in SP mode, but the HUD indication is anywhere else instead of being slaved to the TGP. Only after you start moving the TGP, the HUD indication "wakes up" from where it remained stuck and puts the square TD where it's suppose to be. Does it happen like I say?

[Machalot]

19 minutes ago, 85th_Maverick said:

Ok, I didn't quite explain it correctly and I didn't test enough to see that it actually always points forward, but..., with a bug (for which I agreed with "crispy12") that won't align your HUD indication with the current TGP orientation! After, let's say, you press TMS down and the TGP is slaved to the current waypoint, the vertical bar on the HUD (I usually use CCRP) is also pointed towards the waypoint. Now if you press SP, the TGP does point forward, but the HUD indication remains in an "apparent" random location (probably still stuck on the waypoint) and doesn't show you the square target designator where the TGP points at. The TGP is indeed now looking forward in SP mode, but the HUD indication is anywhere else instead of being slaved to the TGP. Only after you start moving the TGP, the HUD indication "wakes up" from where it remained stuck and puts the square TD where it's suppose to be. Does it happen like I say?

I might be able to test it later tonight. But I think it may be correct behavior if it works as you describe. I think the HUD indication is not directly tied to the TGP line of sight, rather it shows the SPI, sensor point of interest, which might be the last point designated in Area/Point Track and is not affected by SP.

 

It wouldn't make sense for the SPI/CCRP target to follow the SP line of sight because it would have to calculate the bomb release time for a point that is moving forward at the same speed as the aircraft, which (almost always) makes no physical sense. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Machalot

[ZeroReady]

The tgp will always slew to the selected waypoint (steerpoint) by default. Steerpoint is always SPI in the F-16, they aren't separate like in the A10. Once you manually slew the TGP as SOI, then you are effectively slewing the SPI and in addition the selected steerpoint around. If you wish to return to the programmed steerpoint, you must command a cursor zero, CZ on the TGP screen. As you slew the TGP around, you are offsetting your SPI and hence the currently selected steerpoint. This offset doesn't go away until you hit Cursor Zero.

[Frederf]

Target designator box shows target location. In general this is SPI but not always (VIP, VRP, OAP, stuff like that). In pre-designate SP I'm not sure where is SPI but I think it is not at the floating ahead at half radar range FCR cursor. There is also question where is SPI in AA or in pre-designate DTOS, stuff like that.

 

In general in AG if TGP is tracking area/point/inr and SOI then it is SPI. FCR and TGP steal SPI from each other. When one sensor becomes SPI-generator then the other breaks track and goes into slave mode. There is a datalink function to send SPI (might only be Link 11 who knows when we'll get IDM) but that will be an excellent tool to investigate "where's SPI?" in unusual situations.

 

EDIT: In DCS, when you engage SP the fact that attack steering remains on HUD and is slewable with HUD SOI. It is a bit strange and I don't know of it's correct or not but clearly current implementation is that SPI in SP pre-designate CCRP is at the TD box. The FCR (assume)/TGP when in pre-designate SP are simply removed as valid SPI generators. This is a workable and straightforward implementation.

 

TMS down in TGP doesn't return anything to SPI (it is SPI after all at least if it was the tracking sensor it was). It returns it to destination. The concept of destination and steerpoint is important to recognize in F-16. Notice that UFC has STPT button and DEST button (list 1) as they are different. You slew steerpoint from destination generating cursor deltas. When you press "CZ" you are returning steerpoint (and often SPI) back to destination. What you should see when slewing TD box around is that numbers on STPT page change (because you're moving the stpt) while they don't on the DEST page. I notice in DCS the STPT numbers aren't moving on slew.

 

As for "I want the TGP to point forward" usually this is a bad habit to demand this. It's a personal bias which is not reflective of the design philosophy behind the airplane. You can make it happen in a way but if you're doing it all the time as a sort of nervous tick then it's better to change user behavior. Next time you want TGP to stare straight ahead ask yourself, "does it really or is just something I'm demanding out of habit?"

Edited April 21, 2021 by Frederf

[85th_Maverick]

Thank you for your effort and replies guys! I just now wanted to make sure whether this is a bug or not, because after pressing SP and having the TGP point forward as I desire, the HUD vertical line remains stuck on the last waypoint, NOT automatically pointing where the TGP is pointing, and if I just slew the TGP around by just one tiny pixel, the HUD vertical line with the TD box instantly point at the TGP now. I just don't know if this is a normal behavior or not, cause it looks like a bug for the HUD indication. Anyways, at least I found a useful way to have my TGP point forward after all.

 

Cheers!

[Machalot]

2 hours ago, 85th_Maverick said:

Thank you for your effort and replies guys! I just now wanted to make sure whether this is a bug or not, because after pressing SP and having the TGP point forward as I desire, the HUD vertical line remains stuck on the last waypoint, NOT automatically pointing where the TGP is pointing, and if I just slew the TGP around by just one tiny pixel, the HUD vertical line with the TD box instantly point at the TGP now. I just don't know if this is a normal behavior or not, cause it looks like a bug for the HUD indication. Anyways, at least I found a useful way to have my TGP point forward after all.

 

Cheers!

Again, the vertical line does not indicate where the TGP is pointing, is indicates the current Sensor Point of Interest (SPI).  SP does not affect SPI, but as soon as you slew the TGP it is either in Area Track or INR, which both drive the SPI.

[Frederf]

The CCRP azimuth steering l ine (ASL, the vertical line) is attack steering to the target. That's normal that when TGP is taken out of the picture that attack steering is still to target. F-16 can attack points even if FCR and TGP is off. You should try CCRP attack with slewing without TGP loaded.

[Wiggo]

On 10/4/2019 at 12:12 PM, panph90 said:

yes, you can.

Just undesignate any active target while SOI on camera, and change the waypoint with the arrow in the UFC. The camera will point toward the steerpoint.

 

PS: is it possible to do that even with the F18 targetin pod? I've never been able to do that and it could be so useful...

Yes, it is actually much more convinient (whole pod) in hornet. You just open tgtpod in hornet (in A/G mode), select desired waypoint and press WPDSG (in HSI under waypoint selection arrows). You can even go to A/A mode, meanwhile shoot down couple of mig29´s and then go back to A/G mode of hornet -> tgtpod goes where you left (and also ag target). Sry guys for little bit offtopic (if this is F-16 topic) but in a case he did still not know...  I am going to get hate by saing this but i think hornets designating system helps heck of alot with tgt pod, and that it uses same logic ALWAYS vs.  With f-16 where A/G stuff doing fast in heat of battle...  well a mess. There are some things in F-16 pod that just does not fit in my head (why they are done how they are done, I can use it thats not the case, it is just glumsy.) I Still love flying F-16 as much as hornet. Hornet gives the kicks for its systems, but gets boring while its like missile traktor. F-16 has more "IM A ROCKET MAAAN!" feeling. Have a nice weekend. <3

[VarZat]

9 hours ago, Wiggo said:

Yes, it is actually much more convinient (whole pod) in hornet. You just open tgtpod in hornet (in A/G mode), select desired waypoint and press WPDSG (in HSI under waypoint selection arrows). You can even go to A/A mode, meanwhile shoot down couple of mig29´s and then go back to A/G mode of hornet -> tgtpod goes where you left (and also ag target). Sry guys for little bit offtopic (if this is F-16 topic) but in a case he did still not know...  I am going to get hate by saing this but i think hornets designating system helps heck of alot with tgt pod, and that it uses same logic ALWAYS vs.  With f-16 where A/G stuff doing fast in heat of battle...  well a mess. There are some things in F-16 pod that just does not fit in my head (why they are done how they are done, I can use it thats not the case, it is just glumsy.) I Still love flying F-16 as much as hornet. Hornet gives the kicks for its systems, but gets boring while its like missile traktor. F-16 has more "IM A ROCKET MAAAN!" feeling. Have a nice weekend.

The way you explain it, i dont understand how its any harder in the F-16

[Wiggo]

18 minutes ago, VarZat said:

The way you explain it, i dont understand how its any harder in the F-16

Maby it wass littlebit too "edgy" comment from me. It isnt "harder", i just wanted to say that I like the logic of F/A-18 A/G stuff more, / the designate system. F-16 though has its own good things. Like moving the pod in "flight" on frozen radar screen (yes one can ofc do it with hornet also, but in f-16 thats in my opinion clearer / smoother, while one can search for things by moving the cursor on the screen of f-16. (just an example) Both has their pros and cons. It is more what one likes.. I am also newer to f-16 so it is clear that it makes it adds it own salt to my typing  Like I said, I still also love the f-16. It is also way more fun to fly, IMO.  But maby I close my nontopic discussion

Edited August 12, 2023 by Wiggo

[VarZat]

Im not trying to be rude or anything like that, no worries 

Just if you want to make the TGP look at the waypoint you just press TMS down twice. Then if you want to engage something in the air you can just press the MISSILE OVERRIDE switch on the throttle and you will have everything you need there, and when you go back to A-G everything you did there will still be there.

[Wiggo]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:27 PM, VarZat said:

Im not trying to be rude or anything like that, no worries 

Just if you want to make the TGP look at the waypoint you just press TMS down twice. Then if you want to engage something in the air you can just press the MISSILE OVERRIDE switch on the throttle and you will have everything you need there, and when you go back to A-G everything you did there will still be there.

Wow! I was reading some random topic about F16 tpod, and came trough a topic which told that my hotas thumbstick is littlebit buggy in the F16. Added deadzones and now its not drifting. All this goddam time it was my hotas!  Now just by doing one jsow<-> gbu mission the pos is even simpler than Hornets. So user error. I REALLY have always though that f16 tpod is supposed to drift on every now and then after pressing cz, and that what really confused me. Well, I noticed that for some reason DCS goes over my Thrustmaster hotas drivers and does not use the "factory" setting thumbstick deadzone; enabled/disabled - setting, and really never went to zero totally. Dunno why, but thats the same for me, now i got it working as I think it really supposed to work. Well you can imagine.. Now I truly am in love with f-16 while had more hours with tpod. I was totally wrong, litening is as good as in hornet in F-16. Gotta admit I was totally wrong back there. But now pewpew. Short version: I was stupid.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Wiggo