Delareon Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Hey, i think the Crosswind behavior at landings needs a real Update. Didnt manage to made a save Landing in Crosswinds higher than 5kts and even 5 are a scary.... So i want to find out, is it me or does this still need tweaking? Would be Happy to see Tapes and/or Videos or some of your findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Pedro= Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Practice, practice then repeat... Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Asus TUF OC RTX 4090 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb G2 | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreye Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 its possible to land with crosswind but however i feel like the general impact of wind on the viper isnt quite adecuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delareon Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Practice, practice then repeat... Do you manage heavier crosswinds in the Viper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Pedro= Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Do you manage heavier crosswinds in the Viper? The good practice is to compensate for winding the windward wing. Practice that a lot, landing gliders IRL. This skill comes with time, but I don't insist it's perfect as I'm not a viper pilot. Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Asus TUF OC RTX 4090 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb G2 | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Didnt manage to made a save Landing in Crosswinds higher than 5kts and even 5 are a scary.... Did a few tests with a 25kts xwnd component due to a few yaw control complaints...without practise the results weren't exactly beautiful, but it was managable. i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbrood Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Did a few tests with a 25kts xwnd component due to a few yaw control complaints Isn't 25kts the crosswind limit? It's been a while since I've read the -1 so I might be wrong i7-4770k | EVGA GTX 980 SC | 16GB DDR3 | TrackIR 5, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14A/B, AV-8B, FC3, A-10C, Black Shark II, UH-1H, F-86F, MiG-21bis, Mirage 2000C, AJS-37, F-5E :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delareon Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 The good practice is to compensate for winding the windward wing. Practice that a lot, landing gliders IRL. This skill comes with time, but I don't insist it's perfect as I'm not a viper pilot. I do and i also piloting Gliders and Ultralight Planes in RL but never experienced anything like this... Even when landing on wet grass with heavy crosswinds its not nearly as bad as i experience it currently in the Viper. Even in DCS landing the P51 or the D9, the Hornet or the Harrier in Crosswind isnt a Big Deal compared to this as it is currently. Please show me some Tapes or Video with Control Input visible. Especially bbrz, please show me. I tried to take off in 15 kts crosswind and evenwith full Rudder Input the plane was drifting away heavily while on the Ground, so it would be intresting how you do it with 10kts more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Especially bbrz, please show me. I tried to take off in 15 kts crosswind and evenwith full Rudder Input the plane was drifting away heavily while on the Ground, so it would be intresting how you do it with 10kts more. Not at home presently so I can't fly/upload, but I'll do within the next few days. Rudder alone isn't sufficient, at lower speeds you need the NWS to maintain the runway heading. @Madbrood, that's why I tested at 25kts. Edited October 15, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I’ve also successfully landed in a 25kn direct crosswind. It’s not easy, but then again it shouldn’t really be easy if that’s the limits of the aircraft. Lot of fun though! Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delareon Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) No further people actually landing in crosswind AND willing to not just talk but show it? Just saw the Overhead Pattern Thread from Wags without any wind.... But so far i think i flew that Bird too much like in BMS, when i read the F-16 Manual here: https://info.publicintelligence.net/HAF-F16.pdf There is the Crosswind section which actually tells you to do a wing level crab in that situations. Lets see if it works better then. Edited October 17, 2019 by Delareon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Didn't have time for a bit of practise yet, but touching down in full crab with the wings level was always clear I thought? i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekSpeare Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 It's my thought that since it appears that the rudder is still borked that CW landings are not going to be easy to accomplish. Derek "BoxxMann" Speare derekspearedesigns.com 25,000+ Gaming Enthusiasts Trust DSD Components to Perform! i7-11700k 4.9g | RTX3080ti (finally!)| 64gb Ram | 2TB NVME PCIE4| Reverb G1 | CH Pro Throt/Fighterstick Pro | 4 DSD Boxes Falcon XT/AT/3.0/4.0 | LB2 | DCS | LOMAC Been Flight Simming Since 1988! Useful VR settings and tips for DCS HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 It's my thought that since it appears that the rudder is still borked that CW landings are not going to be easy to accomplish. What's wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delareon Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Didn't have time for a bit of practise yet, but touching down in full crab with the wings level was always clear I thought? Not really, in BMS you just bring the plane down and it regulates itself until you hit around 20kts crosswind. If you try to crab you will crash very very easily. So i was thinking this behavior is correct since so many people praise the correct simulation.... I even found videos from a Phantom if i remember correctly, which exactly behaves like this. But this was so long ago i couldnt find it anymore. The rudder currently doesnt feel right because ist a bit sluggish and to intensive if you pull just softly but not extensive enough if you hit it full. At least for me so far. But maybe i just had to adjust my curves a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Don't know when I find some time to practise, but here's a quick and dirty (hence not exactly beautiful, but you get the idea) short track with a 15kts xwnd component. Landing the DCS F-16 in a xwnd is definitely not easy! Landing in BMS was a real immersion killer AFAIR. According to the -1 the F-4 can be landed in a crosswind with all three methods. Wing low, crab and a combination of those two.f16_xwnd_1.trk Edited October 17, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) If you try to crab you will crash very very easily. So i was thinking this behavior is correct since so many people praise the correct simulation.... I'm having to make some adjustments to my landings, coming from that other F-16 sim, where it was much easier in crosswind. But like you stated from the HAF manual, crabbing wings level is the way to go. Here is a T-Day and Jello pointing out an F-16 landing with a little crab: I just need to settle on a good rudder curve that works for both NWS sensitivity and rudder responsiveness once main wheels on tarmac. Having a lot of trouble with the latter currently. Edited October 17, 2019 by Majik having trouble with youtube embed, here is the link: https://youtu.be/x_S-kVtspg4?t=1121 Win10 Pro | i7-9700K @5.0GHz | 2080 Super @2160MHz | 32GB DDR4 3600 | DCS on 1TB M.2 NVME | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds V2 | HP Reverb | Huion 640P | Jetpad FSE | PointCTRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delareon Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks for Track Files and Videos. Well now my Crosswinds are getting better, while they are still not easy.. But i still think is has to be tweaked in DCS because of the heavy jumping if one tire comes a little bit earlier to the ground and massive control input needed. I dont see so heavy control input in the Youtube Video aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 The crosswind in the youtube video was most likely much lower and since the FLCS controls the flight controls movement, it's impossible to tell what inputs have been actually made. I agree on the landing gear being way too stiff presently, just compare with this landing... https://youtu.be/5BJP7H52_YM?t=12 i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billeinstein Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I think the FM (FLCS) is still W.I.P for crosswind condition, especially for high AOA fight like a on-speed approach. It's too early to practice now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 The reduced rates with the gear down “feel” too sluggish. No Curves on a TMWH and it takes practically full throw to influence roll and/or pitch. Hope this gets tweaked some so there’s a bit more authority. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use. www.crosswindimages.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrz Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Even with the gear up and the FLCS in cruise gain the flight controls are way too ineffective at low speed/high AoA. Just watch the F-16s flight 0, how incredible responsive the F-16 is and it perfectly demonstrates why the reduced gain was necessary! https://youtu.be/5BJP7H52_YM?t=12 i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano87 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I think the biggest issue with the crosswind landing in the Viper currently is that the tyres don’t seem to slide. If you’re landing crabbed then as soon as the mains touch they grip like crazy and the aircraft tries to roll on its side. Ironically landing in crosswind on a wet runway is actually easier for me because will less grip it doesn’t roll as much. I think maybe the tyres are too sticky? Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I think the biggest issue with the crosswind landing in the Viper currently is that the tyres don’t seem to slide. If you’re landing crabbed then as soon as the mains touch they grip like crazy and the aircraft tries to roll on its side. Ironically landing in crosswind on a wet runway is actually easier for me because will less grip it doesn’t roll as much. I think maybe the tyres are too sticky? To me, it doesn’t feel like the Viper is planted on pavement at all. On the takeoff roll, it seems to want to wander off the centerline on its own (NWS Off) and even in relatively benign conditions it takes way too much rudder to drag it back off the edge of the runway. This is a trait that a “Nose Dragger” should not exhibit until the nose wheel comes off the ground. Then (and only then) should the jet even think about trying to weather vane into the wind. There are times it feels like it’s torque steering with the longitudinal axis still aligned with the runway but the jet is sliding to one side as the power comes up. It’s like it’s “tippy toeing” along without significant mass pressing down on the gear. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use. www.crosswindimages.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 To me, it doesn’t feel like the Viper is planted on pavement at all. On the takeoff roll, it seems to want to wander off the centerline on its own (NWS Off) and even in relatively benign conditions it takes way too much rudder to drag it back off the edge of the runway. This is a trait that a “Nose Dragger” should not exhibit until the nose wheel comes off the ground. Then (and only then) should the jet even think about trying to weather vane into the wind. There are times it feels like it’s torque steering with the longitudinal axis still aligned with the runway but the jet is sliding to one side as the power comes up. It’s like it’s “tippy toeing” along without significant mass pressing down on the gear. I am glad I am not the only one seeing this behavior on the takeoff roll. For me, the F-16 yaws/slides to the left on takeoff and I have posted the tracks here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4079176&postcount=97 i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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