JSOW so easily eliminated

[flavnet]

Hello everyone! I built a simple mission: the F-18 armed with 4 AGM-154C targets a Neustrashimy. Thanks to the TPOD I can identify the ship from an excellent distance (the background is the sea!). I launch the JSOWs and the ship destroys all four of them at 10-15 nm!! But shouldn't JSOW be difficult (if not impossible) to identify and engage?:(

[Oceandar]

Hello everyone! I built a simple mission: the F-18 armed with 4 AGM-154C targets a Neustrashimy. Thanks to the TPOD I can identify the ship from an excellent distance (the background is the sea!). I launch the JSOWs and the ship destroys all four of them at 10-15 nm!! But shouldn't JSOW be difficult (if not impossible) to identify and engage?:(

In DCS World it would be depending on AI skill level. Most of time ship can intercept missiles but not bomb.

Against Neutrashimy I would suggest you use LGB from high altitude (25k ft just to be safe) send it 4 bombs at once and smile when it crash and burn lol.

 

Good luck

[RodBorza]

The Neutrashimy has the naval equivalent of the nasty SA-15.

 

I made a test mission where I put an SA-10, a Tunguska and a SA-15 on the Area 51 in Nevada. I come at 25,000 feet and full afterburner armed with 4 JSOWs. Release the four of them, the SA-10 does not react, Tunguska doesn't even sees it, but that pesky SA-15 shoots down two or three of them everytime.

 

So, to defeat the 'Shimy, as our friend Oceandar said there, you'll need to come high (above 20,000 feet) armed with LGBs and the SA-15 won't see you.

 

Or, for a Stand-Off range, armed with JDAMs (but you won't have terminal guidance), BUT the darn SA-15 won't shoot down the JDAMs.

 

Or even, and more fun, come with Walleyes. Although it is a short-sighted bomd, it gives you stand-off range AND terminal guidance if used in conjunction with the Datalink pod.

 

In summary, SA-15 like to eat JSOWs for breakfast, but don't even bother with other types of bombs.

 

I don't know if in real life it is the way it is, but in game is how things are right now. Not that it is all bad, because it balances things a lillte bit. SEAD against SA-10s? A breeze with JSOWs. SEAD against SA-10s and mobile units of SA-15s?Nasty, nasty stuff.

 

Another thing SA-15s like to be fed on: Harpoons. Atacking a 'Shimy with Harpoons is an ungrateful task.

[QuiGon]

Unlike modern Anti-Ship-missiles the JSOW isn't sea skimming, nor does it perform evasive maneuvers and it flies rather slowly, so it shouldn't be a difficutl target for the ship's defenses.

[flavnet]

Thank you all for the suggestions. It must be admitted that this contrasts with the desire for realism in a simulation. I understand that the sacrifice was wanted for multiplayer and balance of power, but perhaps it would be correct to review these needs. The mission I built is super unrealistic: no one would dream of leaving a naval force without air cover. Things are much more complex in reality. So, why "invent" a missile that destroys all air weapons in the missile category (regardless of their radar or infrared track) while the same fails to even see aerial weapons in the bomb category?! I repeat, it cannot be answered that in this way a balance of forces is established because an absolute comparison between a naval force and an air force is unthinkable (without each of the two forces being somehow integrated with another complementary force).

[draconus]

I agree with this opinion:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4084838&postcount=4

[Yoda967]

I agree with this opinion:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4084838&postcount=4

 

As do I. Defeating defenses is a numbers game. On offense, you gotta shoot more missiles than it takes to induce the defense to shoot their limit (whether by inventory or fire control system limit). If you're shooting at a single SA-15 TLAR and its 8 missiles, you probably need to launch 9 missiles to get him. If your target is a 4-launcher SA-15 battery, expect to need 36 missiles (9 for each launcher), UNLESS you can figure out a way to get them to launch more than once on each of your missiles.

 

JSOW is a glide bomb, and its range is dependent on the total amount of kinetic energy (airspeed) and potential energy (altitude) it has at launch. It doesn't maneuver to make itself a harder target. It simply trades altitude for airspeed in order to keep flying, and eventually, it runs out of altitude. There's very little magic involved.

 

Its purpose in SEAD is to keep aircrews out of SAM Missile Engagement Zones. To be effective, see my first paragraph above.

 

Edit: deleted extraneous statement about guidance

Edited October 29, 2019 by Yoda967

[Yoda967]

Follow up:

 

The SA-15 will launch two missiles at each incoming target. Launching from just inside max range at 25,000 feet, you can get the SA-15 to expend his missiles by making five attacks, each launching one JSOW.

 

You'll need your wingman for this, and don't forget to change the reaction setting to EVADE FIRE, or your wingman will just report "unable" when you order him to engage.

 

Also, your wingman won't engage until after he reports the mudspike, so you'll need to make a run in close enough to get the SA-15 to light up, or launch a JSOW to get in there and do that for you.

 

I also killed a single, average-rated SA-15 with a single JSOW C, and the trick seems to be to approach at 25,000 feet and hold your launch until 15-20 miles from the target. In this case, the SA-15 fired his two missiles late and both detonated behind the JSOW. EDIT: In this engagement, the JSOW approached from a higher altitude and made a number of vertical moves where it would dive then nearly level off, then dive again, finally approaching the target at about a 45 degree dive.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Yoda967