Grimes Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Most notably the A model lacks R-77s, R-27ER. R-27ET. Also it has no jammer and I think the radar might be slightly less powerful. But look on the bright side you have a 50% chance of having a German woman screaming at you to pull up. 1 The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
GGTharos Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Where the real difference should be that the A's radar should be nearly blind in look-down situations, especially when flying under 2000m altitude. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 RL Russian and Ukranian Mig-29's never fielded he R-77, though it was tested with it and offered for export in modernized versions. The biggest difference we see ingame is the lack of R-77's for the A model but it should be merely the use of R-27R's and ER's for the S version, plus what GG said about the A models radar. The tactical implication of this would be that all A models would fly low to pick up the S's flying against the sky, and these last would be best firing first, or else risk a mano to mano fight. .
TucksonSonny Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 RL Russian and Ukranian Mig-29's never fielded he R-77, though it was tested with it and offered for export in modernized versions. The biggest difference we see ingame is the lack of R-77's for the A model but it should be merely the use of R-27R's and ER's for the S version, plus what GG said about the A models radar. The tactical implication of this would be that all A models would fly low to pick up the S's flying against the sky, and these last would be best firing first, or else risk a mano to mano fight. I think you mean Mig29S’s :D DELL Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 940 2,93 GHz @3 GHz, 8 MB cache | 8.192 MB 1.067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 | 512 MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 | 500 GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA | Samsung SM 2693 HM 25.5 " | HOTAS Cougar Thrustmaster |
golfsierra2 Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 In addition, the MiG-29A lacks engine power compared to the S version. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
SwingKid Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 Where the real difference should be that the A's radar should be nearly blind in look-down situations, especially when flying under 2000m altitude. Huh? The S radar is just an A radar that is able to suppress STT mode when shooting, no? What has that to do with target detection? -SK
504Goon Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 The radar in the S version has at least some upgraded ECCM capabilities. I would suspect that this would mean better downlook capabilities, but that's really just my guess. 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk
504Goon Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 In addition, the MiG-29A lacks engine power compared to the S version. The 9-12 (29A) and 9-13S (29S) both have identical powerplants, though i remember reading somewhere that the some airforces downgraded the engines to give them a longer service life. The main structural diffrence between the two is the hump on the back, which allows the 9-13S to carry internal ECM system, and 220kg of more fuel. Also the max angle of attack was increased to 28 from 26, but technically the 9-12 could do just the same. 504th CO http://www.vvs504.co.uk
RvETito Posted October 29, 2007 Posted October 29, 2007 The engines are RD-33 III series with different accessory gearbox KSA-3 instead of the KSA-2 for the II series. Plus they have increased reliabilty and longer service life but thrust and fuel consumption are all the same. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
GGTharos Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 I'm fairly certain the 9.13S received a new or at the least upgraded radar with a slotted array antenna. Huh? The S radar is just an A radar that is able to suppress STT mode when shooting, no? What has that to do with target detection? -SK [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SwingKid Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 The slotted array is on the Zhuk radar for the MiG-29M/K with a rearranged nose and modified radome. MiG-29S uses "Topaz-M" with the same old Cassegrain as N019 - there used to be photos on the web. It made a simple drop-in upgrade for Malaysian MiG-29N as a result. Of course, the ability to suppress STT mode when shooting is "improved ECCM" in itself.. -SK
GGTharos Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Alright - something must have confused me, and I don't know what. Hm. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Lets not forget theres alot more to it than just radar antennas or power output. The 2 can be the same, the signal processor could be different. This small component alone brings dramatic improvements in detection range and target discrimination. If you add a better targetting computer as well then you also get new modes. I had the same impressions that the S was considerably more capable not just because of the extra fuel and ECM but because among other things the radar was modified including the compatibility with the R-77. This points to the radar changes I described above. The A model was totaly incapable of taking more modern missiles. But I guess we have to let Alfa step in and have his saying as always. :D .
nscode Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Maybe they did improved it, maybe they didn't. For all we know, they might have just added some new bits of code for the new modes and left the old ones as they were. Or, maybe the entire code was rewriten and optimized. When it is said that the signal processor was upgraded, it might mean that just the software was modified, or that it's now overclocked a bit :) Anyway, what I want to say is that those are details that we simply can't know. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
golfsierra2 Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 The engines are RD-33 III series with different accessory gearbox KSA-3 instead of the KSA-2 for the II series. Plus they have increased reliabilty and longer service life but thrust and fuel consumption are all the same. You mean, IRL. How is it modelled in FC ? kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
59th_LeFty Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Where the real difference should be that the A's radar should be nearly blind in look-down situations, especially when flying under 2000m altitude. If we talk about N-019 (referred to E) it's an absolutely NEGATIVE. And except that E (export) version is degraded e.g. for IFF, I don't think it's upgraded in this case. [sIGPIC]http://www.forum.lockon.ru/signaturepics/sigpic5279_1.gif[/sIGPIC] I could shot down a Kitchen :smartass:
GGTharos Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 What is a negative? That radar's pretty blind looking down. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Boneski Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 Fellas... Dude ask about how the “game” jets are different not how the real Borts differ... My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.
SwingKid Posted October 30, 2007 Posted October 30, 2007 What is a negative? That radar's pretty blind looking down. Where are you hearing this? The look-down capability of the original N019 made the West abandon its Tornados, Lancers, Intruders and other low-altitude strikers practically overnight. Maybe you're thinking only of Medium PRF mode? -SK
Pilotasso Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 Early 80's assumptions of aircraft perfomances on the russian side was disastrous. Similar faulty intelligence gave birth to the F-15 after the foxbat was pictured as a superfighter and all it was a mach 3 B-70 interceptor equiped with a brute force radar to burn through the jamming. But I guesS the Americans arent complaining about the Eagle :D I also distintively remenber reading books where it was assumed that when the flanker was first seen it already had a modern radar capable of attacking several targets silmultaneously Just like the F-15. Not so, at least not untill recently that is. The Original mig was very poor indeed and Im almost certain GG was originaly right by saying the Mig-29S radar was improved over the A. Wheres Alfa? .
SwingKid Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I also distintively remenber reading books where it was assumed that when the flanker was first seen it already had a modern radar capable of attacking several targets silmultaneously Just like the F-15. Since the F-15 had no such ability itself at the time, it seems that assumptions about western aircraft weren't much better. :) -SK
X_Man Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 I am waiting for the Rafel to replace the MiG-29A si I can make it carrier ready.
RvETito Posted October 31, 2007 Posted October 31, 2007 You mean, IRL. How is it modelled in FC ? In FC I don't see any difference in performance between 29A and S. The S is basically an A with jammer, 77 and 27ER/ET missiles. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
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