Grumman F6F Hellcat

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Jester986 said:

On the air combat sim podcast Nineline reiterated many times the that Nick Grey loves the Hellcat. Maybe the next ED WWII module?

Check post up.

[Jester986]

36 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Check post up.

What? Last post was 8 months ago. This was from a podcast I only saw posted yesterday.

[Silver_Dragon]

2 hours ago, Jester986 said:

What? Last post was 8 months ago. This was from a podcast I only saw posted yesterday.

Has the same answerd talk by Nick Grey, Hellcat coming (no date) but has a 100%

[Jester986]

Ok, but it still seemed relevant to me.

[kengou]

I believe we'll see the Hellcat as the next WW2 module after the Mossie. No hard evidence other than it seems logical and we haven't heard of anything else lately from WW2 so it seems a worthy candidate. Really hope we get a Zero eventually too to fight against it, even just as AI.

[Mogster]

41 minutes ago, kengou said:

I believe we'll see the Hellcat as the next WW2 module after the Mossie. No hard evidence other than it seems logical and we haven't heard of anything else lately from WW2 so it seems a worthy candidate. Really hope we get a Zero eventually too to fight against it, even just as AI.

Won’t the F6F and the F4U eat the Zero for breakfast though. In the hands of an excellent pilot the Zero will still be dangerous but for most it’ll just be cannon fodder against F4U and F6F zoom bys.

Really suitable opponents would be the Ki61, Ki84, N1K but I’d imagine references for any of those those would be difficult.

[Hiromachi]

Well, Corsair is dangerous since its much faster but I'd not make that point in regard to Hellcat. Unless we speak of F6F-5 with water injection and some aerodynamic improvements, the original F6F-3 is actually unimpressive in terms of performance. For a 1943 aircraft powered with 2000 HP engine at least. And its 1943 record was also rather unimpressive, at least in comparison to Marine (and VF-17) F4U pilots and USAAF P-38 pilots. Claimed victories to losses ratio in Solomons for that period was 4.9 to 1, which was better than F4F (4.1 to 1) but inferior to F4U (5.4 to 1). Do mind that those are claims only, to get a better picture one would have to dive into combat records of both sides to cross check them. Interestingly, Hellcat initially failed to impress IJN aviators, at least seasoned ones, in that they saw it as no better than newest Zero (A6M5).

 

If we take a look from performance perspective, Hellcat is faster than Zero (I'm comparing it to A6M5) but not nearly as much as P-38 or F4U-1, has superior rate of roll (at least at high speeds) and it also gains in dive if you need to get away. But Zero has noticeably better rate of climb (and can climb at much steeper angle), acceleration (so much so that initially it can catch up with F6F), maneuverability goes without saying and I'd also argue about visibility. In fact at some altitudes Zero stays so close to Hellcat, that speed advantage is not conclusive enough to call it a deciding factor.

And this general performance overview correspond with H1 1944 reports. Richard Dunn in his book (Exploding Fuel Tanks [...]) on pages 132 - 134 quotes a number of reports compiled by U.S. Navy aviators in this period. For example Lt. Cdr. JG. Sliney, commander of Air Group 30 after March 29-30 raids on Palau noted: "The pilots engaging the enemy VF [fighters] on this mission state that F6F-3 is almost as maneuverable as the Zeke at fast speed; the F6F-3 could also out-dive the Zeke and was almost as fast at lower altitudes, but could not climb as fast or as steeply. The Zekes were not aggressive and did not work together, when our pilots turned into them, they would break off and pull up."

Considering the Marianas, I think its worth bringing up another report, this time from Battle of Philippine Sea period. Post combat record compiled by VF-25 stated: "Zeke showed usual maneuverability. Zeke out climbed three F6F's at 11,000 feet but was caught by fourth F6F-3 with water injection. One F6F without water injection had difficulty in overtaking Zeke at sea level despite a slight altitude advantage ... at full throttle. All Zekes absorbed a lot of bullets before being destroyed: none exploded in air and some did not burn at all, indicating possible self-sealing fuel cells".

VF-1 CO, Cdr. B.M. Strean had different opinion in regard to plane rigidity at least: "The Zekes were very fast in both straight and level and climbing flight. They could turn on a dime and there is nothing yet in our experience to indicate we can out-dive them. In head-on attacks, they were still shooting as we ducked under and over them. It is very noticeable that they have no pilot protection and that they blow up and catch fire easily".

Vf-10 Lt. Cdr R.W. Schumman reported: "The F6F-3 is superior to Zeke in all respects except climb and maneuverability in tight slow turns. Same as before the Hellcat cannot dogfight a Zeke. The F6F-3 must keep up speed, dive and pull up. Zeke in a power dive is just slightly less fast than the F6F-3."

Finally Lt. Cdr. D.J. Wallace, CO of Air Group 31 noted: "The ability of Zeke to turn and climb seemed more pronounced than ever. Zekes were able to turn 180 while Hellcat was turning 90 deg at high speed. The Hellcat was again faster in dives and level runs at all altitudes. In only one case the Zeke outran the F6F-3 on deck."

 

Of course Hellcat pilots in those events encountered various Zeros. IJN employed from aircraft carriers both A6M5 model 52 fighters and also much older A6M2 model 21 fighters, which were used in this case as fighter-bombers. So differences can often be in planes that Hellcat pilots engaged. Anyway, I think a lot of k/d ratio prowess falls on performance when it should on pilot skills, tactics and U.S. Navy organization. But if we compare raw performance of both, I think F6F-3 and A6M5 are decent match. If any of that talk during stream had merit and ED decides to make F6F-3 to compliment Marianas, it would be fabulous. 

[NoodI]

On 2/21/2020 at 4:11 AM, grafspee said:

I would love to see Bearcat, everyone has own taste .

i believe a modder is making it