Collective? Anyone have any BS expirience with a HOTAS?

[RedTiger]

I see a lot of stuff around here about custom made collectives, Urze's offering (which looks awesome by the way :smilewink:), etc.

 

Can anyone give any feedback about what its like to play with a HOTAS throttle for the collective, sans any attachments? Custom stuff is all fine and good but I won't be spending any money to customize anything or buy anything new. I'll be using what I have.

 

Other than than realism, is having 8-12 inches of more throw -that- much of an improvement? Is a HOTAS throttle usable? No Helo fanboi hype please, I want an honest answer! :mad: :P

[britgliderpilot]

I see a lot of stuff around here about custom made collectives, Urze's offering (which looks awesome by the way ), etc.

 

Can anyone give any feedback about what its like to play with a HOTAS throttle for the collective, sans any attachments? Custom stuff is all fine and good but I won't be spending any money to customize anything or buy anything new. I'll be using what I have.

 

Other than than realism, is having 8-12 inches of more throw -that- much of an improvement? Is a HOTAS throttle usable? No Helo fanboi hype please, I want an honest answer! :P

 

I run Black Shark with an X45, and it's perfectly playable with the throttle, axis reversed or otherwise. Collective mod would probably boost the fun value, though :)

 

 

Actually, at the moment I'm flying with a Logitech 3D Pro twist-stick thanks to limited deskspace - it's actually easier to control with that, mainly due to Saitek's clunky rudder rocker.

 

Moral of this story - get a decent yaw control device LONG before worrying about collective ;)

[G3]

i would like to hear from beta testers who have tried with both,

comparing the throttle to the collective is like chalk and cheese imho.

 

not a tester myself but recently been getting some air time in fsx heli.

after trying the collective out in fsx i believe it makes a big difference

compared to a horizontal throttle.

 

see what they say...................

[VMFA-Blaze]

Yes... I've been flying the choppers out in FSX as well. I just recently installed Accelerator which has some additional choppers included. The models in FSX are the Robertson R22 Beta II, AgustaWestland EH 101 and the Bell 206B JetRanger III...

 

I've reversed my Cougar throttle axis, and I'm using it like a collector which works nicely I might add.

 

I really have to say that the FM for Choppers in FSX is extremely difficult. So I would also like to hear from someone that's flown FSX and BS and what the differences in the FM are by comparison. I've found that MS's FM aren't allways as realistic as they could be. I'm hopeing that the Ka-50 in BS is a little easier to fly then the Choppers in FSX..

 

~S~

 

Blaze

[Shepski]

I use a TQS with Stickworks digital chips as a collective and have no problems at all. Urze's collective mod looks very nice and I'm sure adds more to the experience then just a HOTAS throttle unit.

 

The Black Shark FM, in full mode, is only made easier with the use of the autopilot channels, generous use of the trimmer, and knowing what effects the change in collective will have on the yaw axis.

 

The autopilot channels don't fly the chopper for you like you might think but they help to keep the machine stable by dampening the forces acting on it. Using "route" mode with the "desired track" set it will fly a nav route hands off in terms of lateral navigation but you still need to control the vertical.

 

The auto-hover mode works very nicely but you have to get it slowed and stable before engaging it and then each time you rotate the nose to point it in a different direction you have to use the trimmer again.

 

There is a "descent" mode with the auto-hover that will automatically descend the chopper at a slow rate as long as the mode is engaged and when released it will stop the descent. This is great for popping up and down behind a ridge. Another function is a trigger that will disengage the auto-hover altitude hold and you can climb by increasing collective while it's pulled and when you let it go the altitude hold mode will re-engage.

 

Just an example of the automation in the Ka-50 in DCS:Black Shark.

[RedTiger]

Its good to hear that a HOTAS throttle is usable.

 

@VMFA-Blaze:

 

How did you reverse the axis of your Cougar? Is it a feature of the drivers and software or did you re-wire it or something? I don't think I have the option to do that with mine, the x52 pro.

[Allo]

I would also like to hear from someone that's flown FSX and BS and what the differences in the FM are by comparison.

Excellent question.

[Prophet]

Its part of the Cougar Control Panel, on the first page of the AXIS setup you can choose + or -. I believe you can also change it through the Foxy software also. You should have the option with the X52, and if not DCS should give you the option in its setup.

[VMFA-Blaze]

OK.. This is what the Cougar Control Panel looks like when you open it up on your desk top.. The blue box across from the throttle now has an plus. To reverse the throttle you just have to click on it and it will change to a minus. Next you click on the green lock that's just to the right of the word throttle which is now in the open position and it will lock.

You then click the Apply Button which will load the instruction and reset the Cougar Throttle. And that's it your ready to take the Chopper out for a test run ...:thumbup:

 

 

 

 

~S~

 

Blaze

[Nordic]

I used to play with the x52 throttle and it worked fine. Now i have the throttle replaced by a collective and flying with the collective stick makes thing just a little bit easier, because as you move up the collective the chopper also moves up. I guess this gives you a more intuitive feeling about the controls. In conclusion i would say the difference is very small and there is no must have for a collective. Of course it is nice to have and see urze's mod easy to build/add.

[britgliderpilot]

I really have to say that the FM for Choppers in FSX is extremely difficult. So I would also like to hear from someone that's flown FSX and BS and what the differences in the FM are by comparison. I've found that MS's FM aren't allways as realistic as they could be. I'm hopeing that the Ka-50 in BS is a little easier to fly then the Choppers in FSX..

 

~S~

 

Blaze

 

The differences?

 

Flying the Ka50 after the R22 and the Jetranger is like going from the Cessna to the Extra ;)

 

It's much more powerful, much more maneuvrable, much more responsive . . . which is a bit of a mixed blessing, really.

 

Yes, you can do a lot more, do it much faster, and throw it around a lot more.

But you have to be a lot more on the ball - the aircraft is very twitchy, very fast to respond, and potentially gets you into trouble a lot faster as well.

 

What exactly are you finding difficult about the FSX helicopters?

 

 

 

Two things I'd recommend if you've got FSX, though:

 

Firstly, fly all the helicopter missions and training missions as fast and precisely as you can. Load up the Jetranger into training mission 12 and fly it flat out - I think you can actually dive straight off the cliff and still make the last gate if you're careful.

 

Then practice until that's second nature.

 

The second thing is to practice with the Extra. No, it's not a helicopter . . . but it'll probably teach you something about controlling a very high-performance aircraft accurately.

 

The Red Bull Air Race course is the most obvious test for it, but I quite like loading it into the last helicopter tutorial. See if you can fly both courses flat out ;)

[531-Ghost]

HOTAS experience? Well, here's what I had to say about that... And to add to the immersion, you could get a stiffie and mount it sideways.

[Sundowner.pl]

Firstly, fly all the helicopter missions and training missions as fast and precisely as you can. Load up the Jetranger into training mission 12 and fly it flat out - I think you can actually dive straight off the cliff and still make the last gate if you're careful.

Tried that in AlphaSim Apache, the lowest gate is doable, but pulling up from the dive is a certain boom strike, not enough room for pulling up.

[VMFA-Blaze]

Firstly, fly all the helicopter missions and training missions as fast and precisely as you can. Load up the Jetranger into training mission 12 and fly it flat out - I think you can actually dive straight off the cliff and still make the last gate if you're careful.

 

 

Actually I have a pretty good handle on this mission, I've flown it several times and found it to be one of the easy ones.. Its the Accelerator chopper missions that I'm still working on.. These are somewhat harder. And I just got the addon a few days ago, but I'm sure that I can master them with a little more time.. From what you explained about the FM for BS and it sounds to me like this should be way more fun to fly once you get the basics down. The Ka-50 must have a lot more control...

 

Blaze

[VMFA117_Poko]

Actually I have a pretty good handle on this mission, I've flown it several times and found it to be one of the easy ones.. Its the Accelerator chopper missions that I'm still working on.. These are somewhat harder. And I just got the addon a few days ago, but I'm sure that I can master them with a little more time.. From what you explained about the FM for BS and it sounds to me like this should be way more fun to fly once you get the basics down. The Ka-50 must have a lot more control...

 

Blaze

I'm waiting for Accelaration add-on now. I've heard before about new helo mission to be very hard. Well, can't wait to try myself in it.

[britgliderpilot]

Actually I have a pretty good handle on this mission, I've flown it several times and found it to be one of the easy ones.. Its the Accelerator chopper missions that I'm still working on.. These are somewhat harder. And I just got the addon a few days ago, but I'm sure that I can master them with a little more time.. From what you explained about the FM for BS and it sounds to me like this should be way more fun to fly once you get the basics down. The Ka-50 must have a lot more control...

 

Blaze

 

Really?

 

I've been considering the Acceleration pack . . . think I'll pick that up soon instead of CoD4, then :)

 

Will report back when I've got a comparison.

[grandsurf]

I'm waiting for Accelaration add-on now. I've heard before about new helo mission to be very hard. Well, can't wait to try myself in it.

 

Yes Poko, the new EH-101 missions are not easy ;).

[britgliderpilot]

Not tried the EH-101 missions yet, but a free flight is interesting.

 

Very powerful, but not very agile . . . the power compares reasonably well to my experiences thus far with the unladen Ka50.

Seems to keep on flying at some fairly bizarre angles, though.

 

For something a bit more responsive in FSX (and therefore closer to the Ka50), try Hovercontrol's Bell 412. Much snappier - and if you're on the ball that WILL pull out from the dive off the cliff :)

[Sundowner.pl]

Forget about the default EH-101, there's something seriously wrong with it. Just added hoist to MH-53J from AlphaSim, and picking up people from water is easy, that Merlin just can't stay in one place. BTW do anyone know how to activate the sling ? Added it to the Stalion to, but it don't show after switching aircrafts, had to do a 10k lbs hoist there, just to pick up that Humvee :music_whistling: