American warcrys

[Avimimus]

Hello everyone,

 

I know that there are at least four people here who have served or are serving in American helicopter units.

 

I found two videos recently, both of which were somewhat disturbing. In one a group of insurgents attempted to attack a coalition Humvee that was driving at high speed using small arms. They were ineffectual. In the other an AH-64 destroyed two fleeing trucks carrying insurgents away from an attack. It was done with tremendous effectiveness.

 

The problem is the first video had a religious chant in the background and the insurgents kept yelling "alahu akhbar". Whereas in the second one the Apache pilot kept yelling at the CP/G to "keep on it" (ie. aim) and to "kill his ass" again and again. The fact is that the first video was more impressive, more heroic sounding and made them sound more competent.

 

I don't want to see the insurgents succeed. This is a war where online propaganda is important and I was thinking that the audio should be watched. In the past American's have raised terrifying battle-cries, maybe its time to bring them back?

 

What do you think?

[AlphaOneSix]

Insurgent videos go through a fairly thorough production phase, and they are distributed specifically as propaganda tools.

 

The vast majority of U.S. videos are raw videos uploaded directly from soldiers in the field, and are distributed as a "Hey dude, check this out!" tool.

 

The U.S. government has already banned service members from uploading videos of that sort, but it doesn't seem to have stopped them. The Army and other services are aware that online imagery is important, it's just that the people taking the video and posting it online don't particularly care, and it's terribly difficult to stop them.

[Avimimus]

That all makes sense,

 

I guess it would also be not acceptable for aircrew themselves to decide to yell or make other noises over the comm (as it could restrict the flow of information).

 

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of using code words in place of "kill his ass" or "I can't see him" would tend to sound more impressive (and actually would take up less time on comm). A kind of intimidating sounding short hand...

 

Btw. What branch of the army administration is actually responsible for managing public image and propaganda?

[EricJ]

Public Affairs Office. It's pretty sure if pilot/CP/G was saying "Kill his ass" then it was internal comms recording, rather than transmitted. Then again when you're dealing with Aviation types in general, it's kinda expected to hear it over the radio, especially over normal comms traffic. Get in a hot situation and radio discipline tends to suffer sometimes, but what truly matters sometimes is making it happen rather than worrying about always what you say :thumbup:

 

I'd also like to point out that regardless of what opinion you hold of the American military, this really isn't the forum or place to really discuss it.

[Avimimus]

Perhaps, I recognize the difficulties in discussing anything like this, especially involving appearances in a controversial war. That is why I am staying close to the thread while I work.

 

The fact is, though, that it is an interesting subject and there are few places where you can get the views of people who are actually involved.

 

So far though, the only subject matter has been flow of information, uses in propaganda and the functioning of the actual communications. None of this need touch on views on the American military, the operation or competency (except perhaps indirectly the public affairs office with regards to controlling the posting of videos).

 

Anyway, I had always envisioned helicopter aircrew talking like a ATC except with more of a short hand. I was quite surprised to hear banter back and forth and even the use of full sentences in combat or even most parts of flight. It certainly give the feel that there are real people behind these steeds (as opposed to idealized calculating pieces of drilled machinery).

This is a good thing.

 

S!

[AlphaOneSix]

Anyway, I had always envisioned helicopter aircrew talking like a ATC except with more of a short hand. I was quite surprised to hear banter back and forth and even the use of full sentences in combat or even most parts of flight. It certainly give the feel that there are real people behind these steeds (as opposed to idealized calculating pieces of drilled machinery).

This is a good thing.

 

 

This reminds me of a flight I went on a few days ago. We randomly picked one of our passengers and put her in the flight engineer seat and gave her a headset so she could chat with us (passengers seem to get a real kick out of sitting up front and chatting with the aircrew). Anyway, somewhere during a conversation about the son of one of the pilots playing football, and my love of ice cream and its effects on my waistline, the girl spoke up and commented that she thought we'd be talking about "flight routes or altitudes or something". She was surprised to discover that the 4 aircrew spend most of the time just talking back and forth about crap. After all, most flights are rather boring.

 

When we talk on the radio to the outside world, *then* the talk is all professional. But just between the crew on the intercom, it's anything but professional. The audio from the Apache video, that's the intercom, so nobody can hear it but the crew...that is, until it gets posted on the Internet by someone. ;)

[Fitz]

Hello everyone,

 

I know that there are at least four people here who have served or are serving in American helicopter units.

 

I found two videos recently, both of which were somewhat disturbing. In one a group of insurgents attempted to attack a coalition Humvee that was driving at high speed using small arms. They were ineffectual. In the other an AH-64 destroyed two fleeing trucks carrying insurgents away from an attack. It was done with tremendous effectiveness.

 

The problem is the first video had a religious chant in the background and the insurgents kept yelling "alahu akhbar". Whereas in the second one the Apache pilot kept yelling at the CP/G to "keep on it" (ie. aim) and to "kill his ass" again and again. The fact is that the first video was more impressive, more heroic sounding and made them sound more competent.

 

I don't want to see the insurgents succeed. This is a war where online propaganda is important and I was thinking that the audio should be watched. In the past American's have raised terrifying battle-cries, maybe its time to bring them back?

 

What do you think?

 

 

More competent? Are you insane?

I have spent the last ten minutes trying to figure out a way to spell out how I feel about the insurgents and their tactics without being kicked off the forum. So I am not going to.

The dialogue that goes on inside a cockpit on the ICS (intercom system) is much the same as you would hear if you were near a crew-served weapons team in a firefight. We don't use brevity codes or try to be brief on the ICS because there is no one else listening or trying to speak. We still get excited no matter how many engagements we have done in the past. Don't you think it would be odd to hear a casual tone during an engagement? Even with the most calm, collected pilots you can still hear the excitement in their voice.

 

P.S. I am glad the insurgency's propaganda films have recruited another sympathetic soul:cry:.

[159th_Viper]

I'd have to agree with EricJ here: One must bear in mind that this is an International Forum and as such feelings, if any, on the subject at hand will differ greatly and inevitably lead to heated outbursts, discussions and/or statements.

 

I for one find the subject matter quite distasteful and echo the statement that this is not really the place to be discussing it. War in it's many guises is never pretty - the memories linger forever.

 

An aviation SIM Forum is not the best place to be reminded thereof.........

[Force_Feedback]

Whooaaa, keep the non-essential chat to a minimum, remember, it's a stalinist regime over here, you don't want your browser being followed, and the next day your firefox.exe/ie.exe being buried somewhere in a forest before it was molestered and gangraped by trojans.

The reason they're screaming is becuase they're on the ground and have little or no feeling of safety, I mean for the same matter a hellfire can impact the next second they are done with bomb planting. Aircrews seem to have a cooler head, either the trining, personality or combat situation allows for that. When looking at ground warfare footage, hearing 'take that motherf-ers' is not too uncommon of a waycry. The insurgents have faith as a means to bind them together, so they use 'allahu akbar'. The funny thing is, all Middle-eastern religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) started out as a Mesapotanian story about their gods several thousands of years before the bible appeared, so technically speaking (ignoring all the crap the clerks made up to statisfy their needs over the centuries) all religions literally are the same, and none of them was 'first'. Google for enuma elish.

 

But seriousely, comparing an aircrew to ground troops is a bit unfair, the latter usually can hear eachother without any equipment, so unless the insurgents will get some kind of noisy machine, they have no need for comms etiquette.

 

P.S. all that insurgency crap is not religious at all, just an excuse for rich Saidi/Syrian/Emirate sheiks to recruit gunmeat to fight a hobby war against the people that buy their crude oil (not only the US), and never mention their activities because of that.

[Groove]

This thread was heading way into the wrong direction thats why it was closed.