TARPS pod

[Mich Mich]

Hi Gents and HB,

 

Are there any plans to develop the TARPS pod one day, and give us more option for the bird's loadout?

 

As for TARPS, all new build F-14B and F-14D are wired for, as well as a good portion of F-14A and converted B/D Tomcats (all F-14s can carry both the LTS and TARPS together on ferry flights, but are wired for either one only at once. That's also because of this that pairs of Tomcats flew TARPS missions wirh one LTS and one TARPS bird, the first usually being used to aid the TARPS bird to spot the recon area). Since LTS is being implemented, TARPS would be a great add too, since TARPS missions were all important, even in the F-14 community! Would also add a great deal of tactical use of the aircraft!

 

As for loadout, we're quite limited in the rearm menu. For instance, you don't have LGBs with the LTS pod, only dumb bombs, and no mix is available. VF-2 did a cool mix over Afghanistan (if memory serves), by having a jet loaded with both TARPS and dumb bombs, along with AIM-9 and AIM-54 (again if memory serves). In the Watching for the Devilsdog mission, I would have liked to load my VF-11 jet with the LTS and an AIM-54 along the GBU-16s and AIM-9s already loaded, or have a mix of bombs, and choose which would be loaded on what station

 

Cheers!

 

Edit: For extensive loadout choices, I finally discovered that you can choose station by station what to load by right clicking on each station. Too bad the LTS is not usable!

Edited April 3, 2020 by Mich Mich

[todd022]

Just read a book about the tomcat, where the TARPS mission really became very useful and common in its later years.

 

Would be so cool to be able to feed into SA for allies on MP servers with battlefield commander slots.

[IronMike]

We will add a Tarps pod, but most likely with very limited functionality. The realm of reconnaissance in DCS is simply too limited, too niche, to warrant an extensive investment into a fully functional TARPS including it's navigational functions, etc... We will think maybe of some small substitute function for a very simple recce, or a simple foto op, but prolly will not go much further than this. We will most likely add also a flag for a TARPS picture taken or similar so that this can be used for triggers in the mission editor, but we have yet to see how or if that is possible, so overall pls do not take any of this as a promise yet. The only thing we can promise for now is that there will be a TARPS pod with very limited functionality.

 

 

To explain maybe a bit in comparison: full Tarps functionality would cost us likely a full month of development time for something which would be used by the smallest minority of players. We did implement an extensive ELINT function in the Viggen's RWR, which by our knowledge is also used very rarely, if at all. Most missions and in general electronic warfare/ reconnaissaince ops etc in DCS are unfortunately too marginalized. Personally I would love nothing more, I like these kind of missions a lot. Who knows maybe one day we will get a more wholesome integration of reconnaissance/EW for DCS.

Edited April 4, 2020 by IronMike

[Mich Mich]

Wow, another Tomcat thing learned! Didn't know TARPS had navigation system in it! Just thought nav came from the F-14

 

Photo recce limited capacity is OK for me

[IronMike]

Wow, another Tomcat thing learned! Didn't know TARPS had navigation system in it! Just thought nav came from the F-14

 

Photo recce limited capacity is OK for me

 

 

I myself know very little of the subject in depth, Naquaii and Gyrovague are the ones really knowledgeable regarding TARPS, but it was used to provide the RIO and pilot more precise navigation to take pictures over the exact desired spot. This means that the CAP changes for TARPS and several other integrations into the systems, HUD and TID symbology depending on control panel settings, which would also need to be done, etc. In short, it is a far more complex system than just a foto camera.

[Looney]

Even in a limited form, just a photo camera that points down and shoots pictures when pressing button, would be highly valued by us.

 

The Mi-8 has a gun camera that is rarely used, it just snaps screenshots when you flip a switch and squeeze the trigger. Screenshots can be found in the DCS screenshot folder. If that were to be a TARP functionality, I'd be a happy camper.

 

It'll be low on the priority list but at least it's still there, waiting for time to be alloted.

[Spiceman]

Wow, another Tomcat thing learned! Didn't know TARPS had navigation system in it! Just thought nav came from the F-14

 

Photo recce limited capacity is OK for me

 

The TARPS pod itself didn’t have a navigation system. There was additional navigation information displayed on the HUD/VDI when in TARPS mode, which still came from the AWG-9. The pilot had to a bunch of “put the thing on the thing” kind of steering with a Commanded Ground Track Line and a couple additional steering error cues.

[Mich Mich]

Oh thanks for the great info!

 

Did you work on all 3 variants while in VF-101?

[Spiceman]

I worked on the A and A+. We may have had one or two jets that had PTIDs in VF-101 when I left there in 93, but I have no experience with it. I was in a shop called Troubleshooters at the time and not in the avionics shop.

[Mich Mich]

Ok, thanks for your service and the time to reply!

[statrekmike]

A simple "photo mode" with perhaps a filter applied is probably the most useful and least difficult to develop. It would probably not be useful for the kind of scenarios that are often favored on public servers but it would be a fantastic tool for smaller private groups who want to do campaigns that involve taking pictures in one flight that would be used for briefings in the next mission.

[Mich Mich]

Could be even usable in SP campaigns, to unlock some details.on next mission

[JayBird]

Even in a limited form, just a photo camera that points down and shoots pictures when pressing button, would be highly valued by us.

 

The Mi-8 has a gun camera that is rarely used, it just snaps screenshots when you flip a switch and squeeze the trigger. Screenshots can be found in the DCS screenshot folder. If that were to be a TARP functionality, I'd be a happy camper.

 

It'll be low on the priority list but at least it's still there, waiting for time to be alloted.

 

Agreed, I would be extremely happy even if we were just granted this limited functionality.

[Karon]

Even the ability of taking simple screenshots (somewhat "watermarked" or framed and with info such as latlongs and so on) would be amazing to add even more variety.

[IronMike]

The TARPS pod itself didn’t have a navigation system. There was additional navigation information displayed on the HUD/VDI when in TARPS mode, which still came from the AWG-9. The pilot had to a bunch of “put the thing on the thing” kind of steering with a Commanded Ground Track Line and a couple additional steering error cues.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for chiming in Spice, as always!

[Spiceman]

Of course!

[LanceCriminal86]

Perhaps in addition to actual photos/screenshots a "zone" can be painted around the aircraft representing the TARPS sensor and visibility, which can then trigger success flags in missions. Something a little more complicated than flying over a zone is making sure the cameras were able to "see" the target sufficiently.

[IronMike]

Something a little more complicated than flying over a zone is making sure the cameras were able to "see" the target sufficiently.

 

 

Unfortunately that is exactly the kind of in depth we will possibly try to avoid. Because then it starts to get complicated very quick in terms of development. clouds, ok, but what about forrests? what about camouflage, what about fog and so on.. I think params like these for mission success are best managed by the mission creator, for example a combination of in zone, below altitude (say matching the cloud layer) and TARPS foto trigger press or similar (I am just making stuff up as an example now).

 

I really hate to shut down great ideas, but concerning TARPS please everyone manage your expectation for the bare minimum.

[LanceCriminal86]

Unfortunately that is exactly the kind of in depth we will possibly try to avoid. Because then it starts to get complicated very quick in terms of development. clouds, ok, but what about forrests? what about camouflage, what about fog and so on.. I think params like these for mission success are best managed by the mission creator, for example a combination of in zone, below altitude (say matching the cloud layer) and TARPS foto trigger press or similar (I am just making stuff up as an example now).

 

I really hate to shut down great ideas, but concerning TARPS please everyone manage your expectation for the bare minimum.

 

I completely understand. But my thought was that if your Tomcat is inverted or rolled 90 degrees, that TARPS pod isn't going to be able to *see* the target. Does the mission builder allow for any parameters like aircraft roll or pitch attitude for triggers?

[Mich Mich]

Totally agree with you guys, simple photos will be great

[Uxi]

A simple "photo mode" with perhaps a filter applied is probably the most useful and least difficult to develop. It would probably not be useful for the kind of scenarios that are often favored on public servers but it would be a fantastic tool for smaller private groups who want to do campaigns that involve taking pictures in one flight that would be used for briefings in the next mission.

 

That would be enough for me.

[BodyOrgan]

Unfortunately that is exactly the kind of in depth we will possibly try to avoid.

 

...

 

I really hate to shut down great ideas, but concerning TARPS please everyone manage your expectation for the bare minimum.

I don't really know much about TARPS if anything at all, but if it's essentially a reconnaissance pod I have an idea on how to actually make it useful IN GAME, and probably cause it to get heavy use.

 

If we move to the multiplayer world for a minute, and jump on a server like BlueFlag, DDCS, or any number of servers with fog of war, then we'll quickly realize the uselessness of pre-planned target modes in the Viggen, Harrier, Hornet, etc. You can't very well mark a target via the F10 map if you can't see the target on the map to begin with, so here's the idea:

If the Tomcat's TARPS pod captures intel/pictures (however this thing works), and makes it back to an allied airfield, then the captured information could be marked on the F10 map. For example, if an SA-6 is overflown, then the units could be put on the F10 map with the marker labeled as the units type.

 

A user could then take it upon themselves to change the label to the format they need for their aircraft. For example, convert the SA-6 name to m1, m2 for the Viggen, or t1, t2 for the Harrier, etc... The user could then load up these reconnoitered targets into their aircraft's pre-planned targets, and have a field day.

To me, this would make TARPS missions very valuable. I would fly them myself, so I could then go back for some sweet BK90 action :joystick:

[TLTeo]

I completely understand. But my thought was that if your Tomcat is inverted or rolled 90 degrees, that TARPS pod isn't going to be able to *see* the target. Does the mission builder allow for any parameters like aircraft roll or pitch attitude for triggers?

 

 

Yes it does

[Mich Mich]

That's gonna be a great add to the tactical aspect! Will also force some pilots to fly less "instinctively"...

[Dino Might]

There are some cool things possible with the LUA scripting, especially MOOSE. The main thing that is missing is a way to directly access where a particular sensor is pointing from the script side.

 

 

I had an idea a while ago about using the LANTIRN to call in artillery strikes using the MOOSE arty scripting. It needs a lat/long that is input by setting a marker on the F10 map. If instead, a script could snag the lat long variable on the LANTIRN when, say, the laser button is pressed, you could do some scripting to have that set lat/long for artillery.

 

 

Similarly, with TARPS, if there were a way to grab the pointing vector or the position it is looking at on the ground, then all the cool mission effects ideas could be taken care of with scripting.