Any one Tried One Of These As Collective?

[Tinkickef]

USB car racing handbrake. Been using the warthog right throttle for collective up to now and left for engine power lever.

Anyone tried one of these handbrakes?

Looks like around 30degree travel and a 14 bit rotary sensor. Will this be enough resolution?

Looks fairly easy to extend and fit an alternative grip, and I suppose the spring could be easily removed and some type of friction damper installed.

 

I suppose the throttle does not need to be in the grip for Huey since power is supplied by the fuel system governer to maintain constant rotor rpm in most cases.

Essentially fly and forget.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Handbrake-For-PC-Windows-System-Racing-Games-G25-27-29-T500-FANATECOSW-LFS/133228995190?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=5c4d7fcacb4e4c808d3a1bf371c296eb&pid=100675&rk=3&rkt=15&mehot=none&sd=274077740808&itm=133228995190&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:29a177c5-7e07-11ea-954d-74dbd180362a%7Cparentrq:76ea098a1710a9cb8b46887fffe51628%7Ciid:1&redirect=mobile

Edited April 14, 2020 by Tinkickef

[MAXsenna]

I believe you'll have to mod it to make it stay in the position you want, 'cause I think these handbrakes have springs for returning to 0...

In another thread I read yesterday some Russian dude is offering collectives for quite a reasonable price compared to the "reviews" so far.

 

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[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

I believe you'll have to mod it to make it stay in the position you want, 'cause I think these handbrakes have springs for returning to 0...

In another thread I read yesterday some Russian dude is offering collectives for quite a reasonable price compared to the "reviews" so far.

 

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I also read somewhere from real huey pilots, collective needed to be handle all the time, because of the long lever and the "head" with some weight with the button box for the landing light controls and stuff.

So the moment they took their left hand, the collective pulled all the way down to the floor.

[MAXsenna]

I also read somewhere from real huey pilots, collective needed to be handle all the time, because of the long lever and the "head" with some weight with the button box for the landing light controls and stuff.

So the moment they took their left hand, the collective pulled all the way down to the floor.

Interesting!

But my point was also sort of "that is a handbreak, probably with springs and a short throw". So unless moded, I think it will be pretty unsuitable for a collective, but that just me.

 

Anyway, your comment made me wanna know more, so I found this a little interesting as, well.

 

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[MAXsenna]

Anyway...

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4162986&postcount=1

 

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Edited April 15, 2020 by MAXsenna
Fixed link

[pbishop]

I also read somewhere from real huey pilots, collective needed to be handle all the time, because of the long lever and the "head" with some weight with the button box for the landing light controls and stuff.

So the moment they took their left hand, the collective pulled all the way down to the floor.

 

Don't believe everything you read. Collective friction adjustment exists in all UH-1, 212, 412 models to exactly prevent this from happening. There is a built in collective friction 8-12 lbs, and a pilot controlled collective friction adjustment knob.

[MAXsenna]

And that's why Russian helicopters have collective brake, if memory serves me well.

 

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[pbishop]

And that's why Russian helicopters have collective brake, if memory serves me well.

 

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Collective brake can be considered force trim, and not the same. I don't know much about Russian helicopters, but the Mil-17 does have a collective friction wheel on the pilot side.

[MAXsenna]

Collective brake can be considered force trim, and not the same. I don't know much about Russian helicopters, but the Mil-17 does have a collective friction wheel on the pilot side.

Yup. And both the Hip and the Shark have buttons assignments for it.

I read in a BS thread once that it was tied to the autopilot and recommended to use when changing the collective, (think the c dude had made a homemade one), but I can really notice any difference. I probably use it incorrectly though. Hehe

 

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[Holton181]

I read in a BS thread once that it was tied to the autopilot and recommended to use when changing the collective, (think the c dude had made a homemade one), but I can really notice any difference. I probably use it incorrectly though. Hehe

Yes, it's connected to the Ka-50's AP, but then you need to have the altitude hold channel activated. If you have, pres whatever button you have assigned to the collective brake before moving the collective and don't release it untill established a steady altitude/height above ground (depending on what mode you selected, barometric or radar).

[MAXsenna]

Yes, it's connected to the Ka-50's AP, but then you need to have the altitude hold channel activated. If you have, pres whatever button you have assigned to the collective brake before moving the collective and don't release it untill established a steady altitude/height above ground (depending on what mode you selected, barometric or radar).

Hmmm... I think that's what I did, but I guess I'll have to try again. Haven't flown the Shark in a while. In the Hip I try the same thing. Well, better use Google again.

Thanks!

 

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[Tinkickef]

Well I ordered one. I will take the spring out, fit a fibre washer to the lever pivot for friction and report back.

[Holton181]

Hmmm... I think that's what I did, but I guess I'll have to try again. Haven't flown the Shark in a while. In the Hip I try the same thing. Well, better use Google again.

Thanks!

 

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Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit, just a final tip on this subject.

To easily see whether or not you engaged the altitude hold, select the ground radar mode and fly less than 300m above uneven ground. The helicopter (and its nose) will start to bob up and down with the terrain.

[MAXsenna]

Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit, just a final tip on this subject.

To easily see whether or not you engaged the altitude hold, select the ground radar mode and fly less than 300m above uneven ground. The helicopter (and its nose) will start to bob up and down with the terrain.

Thanks. I'll try that!

 

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[Tinkickef]

So it arrived. First looked to removing the return spring. Loosened of a lock nut and undid a socket headed bolt . Removed spring and two thrust washers. Refitted bolt. No spring now. 2 minute job.

 

Looked at friction. Basically the pivot is contained within an alloy box bolted together by socket headed screws. The pivot itself is a bolt and locknut going throughout the sides of the box, two spacers, one each side of the lever and next to the lever itself to take out radial play, two wave washers.

Removed bolt, slackened off the bolts holding the frame together, inserted a washer (thrust washer from spring) between the frame and spacer, then adjusted the pivot bolt to just allow the lever to support itself without falling to the low end of travel when horizontal. 5 minute job.

 

Looked at lever length, likely about 300mm all told, but lever is in two parts with some adjustment possible via slotted holes and bolted together.. Not long enough.

Extended lever by pressing the two separate pieces into a 300mm length of 20mm wiring conduit. This is a very tight fit and the conduit has to stretch in all axes to accommodate it. No bolts or screws reguired to make a solid extension. Tightened pivot bolt a little more to ensure it supported its own weight.

 

So with extension, lever travel is around 200 - 250mm from bottom to top, far in excess of the warthog throttle range used previously. 5 minute job using my not inconsiderable weight to assist.

 

Tested it on rig and set sensor and travel endpoints. So far so good. There is a very small amount of lever travel at the top of the scale that extends beyond the sensor range, but go there and you have low rotor speed horn blaring anyway.

 

Need to find a usb extender cable tomorrow, nail it to my rig and give it a try. Always found the warthog throttle good enough, but I'm betting this lever will take it to a new level of realism.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Tinkickef

[MAXsenna]

Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit, just a final tip on this subject.

To easily see whether or not you engaged the altitude hold, select the ground radar mode and fly less than 300m above uneven ground. The helicopter (and its nose) will start to bob up and down with the terrain.

 

Thanks! I knew I did something wrong!

 

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[MAXsenna]

@Tinkickef

That's cool, sorry if I went OT!

 

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[Tinkickef]

Well its all set up and working a treat on my VR rig. The throttle I was using was a blunt instrument compared to the collective. My hovering has suddenly become much more precise.

 

the 14 bit resolution hall sensor is fine, very smooth, no discernible steps in the operation.

 

The grip is located very close to where you see the grip in the Huey, so no fumbling around and the travel observed and felt closely matches the Huey cockpit, so success!

 

It does not look great, certainly not to home cockpit standard but I'm not too bothered because I fly exclusively in VR.

 

Still using the warthog left throttle to set engine to max governed power.

 

To give an idea of travel I will enclose pics of collective at bottom and at top, although the sensor reaches max value about an inch from the upper full travel of the lever. Only setup required was to bind it to huey collective, remove the throttle/collective bind and invert the axis.

 

I hope I have given some idea of how to get hold of an inexpensive collective with little skill required. Probably took an hour all told from opening the box to it mounted and working.

 

Collective at bottom of travel:

 

 

 

Collective at top:

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Tinkickef

[Tinkickef]

Dude that's pretty awesome. Where did you get that gear lever?

 

 

It's a US government surplus aircraft gear lever assembly mechanism by Rockwell Collins, that I saw on eBay and had shipped to the UK; put it in a box and cut the lever itself out of acrylic sheet and two RC aircraft wheels I had lying around.

 

The original lever was not chunky enough to match the look / feel of the Hog gear handle. Also because it is from an actual aircraft, it has the correct pull out, select up or down and push in type action.

No idea of what aircraft it was from, but it had two microswitches fitted, one for up, one for down. Easy to wire up to a usb encoder and thence bind to DCS.

 

It's vitally important in VR to get things in the right place so you can just reach out. Same with the Hog switch panels, all fall to hand when sat in the Hog cockpit.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Tinkickef

[Fri13]

I hope I have given some idea of how to get hold of an inexpensive collective with little skill required. Probably took an hour all told from opening the box to it mounted and working.

 

You certainly did!

 

I have future project about making own collective using just a Leobodnar board. Super easy to actually set all wanted axis, buttons etc. But challenge really is to decide that what layout to go for, and currently I am to go for a own unique "general" style where I combine multiple different functions to one, but loosely base it to KA-50 collective.

 

I have all the pieces to build one, but the main challenge so far has been decide which way do I go for the collective axis design. Either take a highway and build a more complex brake lever system with gears etc. OR go for a simple way and use just a counter-weight design where you have string going from collective through small loops to rear where is just counter weight. The nice thing with this is that one can add friction and so on get smooth handling but counterweights denies collective drooping or being against handling.

 

So my main question is that is there a much horizontal play in that your extended variant (left to right)?

 

 

As I have now idea to buy one and then check if I could detach its wiring from its own circuit board and just wire its hall-sensor to the Leobodnar board and that way get it all through that, via the button box itself....

[Tinkickef]

You certainly did!

 

I have future project about making own collective using just a Leobodnar board. Super easy to actually set all wanted axis, buttons etc. But challenge really is to decide that what layout to go for, and currently I am to go for a own unique "general" style where I combine multiple different functions to one, but loosely base it to KA-50 collective.

 

I have all the pieces to build one, but the main challenge so far has been decide which way do I go for the collective axis design. Either take a highway and build a more complex brake lever system with gears etc. OR go for a simple way and use just a counter-weight design where you have string going from collective through small loops to rear where is just counter weight. The nice thing with this is that one can add friction and so on get smooth handling but counterweights denies collective drooping or being against handling.

 

So my main question is that is there a much horizontal play in that your extended variant (left to right)?

 

 

As I have now idea to buy one and then check if I could detach its wiring from its own circuit board and just wire its hall-sensor to the Leobodnar board and that way get it all through that, via the button box itself....

 

 

No play at all. And the circuit board is an Arduino Leonardo.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Tinkickef

[subseauk]

nice home build mate. :beer:

[shu77]

hey any chance you can post a picture of where you put the washer, I have the same unit, and im not overly keen on disassembling the pivot in mine so keen to see where you put them

[Tinkickef]

hey any chance you can post a picture of where you put the washer, I have the same unit, and im not overly keen on disassembling the pivot in mine so keen to see where you put them

 

 

 

Washer is on the right of the pivot.

 

 

 

[AW139]

I also read somewhere from real huey pilots, collective needed to be handle all the time, because of the long lever and the "head" with some weight with the button box for the landing light controls and stuff.

So the moment they took their left hand, the collective pulled all the way down to the floor.

 

I know this is an older thread, but the collective doesn't need to be held during flight to keep from falling. There is a set amount of built-in collective friction (I can't remember the number off-hand), as well as an adjustable friction knob located at the base of the collective.

 

If the collective is dropping while not being held, there is something very wrong with the built-in friction, and maintenance needs to figure it out.

 

I have about 3000 hours flying the Bell Huey family of helicopters.