Forming pit building group in CA for BS

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Hows everyone doing? Been a few weeks since I talked to Cat here a long time since I've heard from Rocketeer. Hope all is going good with you guys, I'm still not building but I am planning sorta........ and I've been playing a lot of LOMAC now that I have a PC to push it almost full out!

 

Crazysundog dont worry about not having skills or time pitbuilding is a hobby that you just do with the time you have I recommend building a set up that you can at least fly with you HOTAS and keyboard and add everything as you go, that way you can have the pit play with it and not have to worry too much about progress with building. You dont need any skills, just some ideas and tools, I started with re-working an old logitech wingman joystick into extra controls it was really a simple project and when I was done it was, oh crap it works!

[CAT_101st]

Hay hitch I ben playing F4 AF over at multyfalcon. If you car to join we can do a few flights together.

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

oh man not another sim..........

 

I cant afford anything like that right now. But I cant tell you how many times I've passed it in a store to look at it and think about it!

[CAT_101st]

Ok I had to go diging to find this thread to up date it. Now that BS is gitting so close I am diverting all extra money back to my pit building. I have put in a order for the Hagstrom KE72 and breakout boards . I will be reciving them on monday. I had to sell an old motercycle to buy this stuff. I will post a review of hardwair and programing softwair. I will be going cheap on buttons and switches that remain to be bught just to finish the project.

I have already started a list of switch comands that are priorty to have. So about have my curint switches will not be working, just for looks until I can order a second KE72 . If BS suports mutiple pots I will add a KEAD6 to add the diles.

 

To the new guys. If you live on the weast coast USA drop me a PM.

 

Thanks for reading.

[rocketeer]

hi guys, it's been a long time since i dropped in. i am again working out of state, this time, chicago, fly home to bay area twice a month. right now it's impossible for me to work on my cockpit, being away from home all the time. hoping for the US economy to recover soon and find myself a job in the bay area.

 

cat, i see that u've made good progress. are you still working at redwood city? got to meet u one of these days when i'm back for the weekend.

 

as for trigger, i don't even want to say. he's lightyears ahead. good job!

 

the least i can do now is to follow up on the producer's notes and do some planning and design when my job is not killing me.

 

i've been dreaming that my job is cockpit building, instead of ...never mind!

[Aeroscout]

I haven't replied in an eternity or two either, so here are some pics of the front panel. Nothing is glued down yet, but this is just to give you an idea of how it will look:

 

Enjoy

[deadsmell]

@Cat I was wondering for a while why you have an 850W PSU. Now I know. :)

 

I thought I was cool when I took an old lawn chair, and mounted some boards on the arms to put my hotas on.

 

You guys should get together and start a business. It would be nice to see an affordable pre-fab cockpit finally.

 

it cracks me up how the guys that make stuff like this to sell actually think its worth more than a new car sometimes. I cant imagine that they have many buyers.

 

you guys should design the ultimate compact, affordable, pit, and get it into production.

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

It may be funny to think of the money involved in this stuff but there are lots of hobbyists out there that have the cash to drop on this stuff. I've found that the guys that are really into pit building are 30+ and usually are making a lot of money. I cant say the same for myself, but there are plenty of examples of guys dropping $20k+ building a 737 two seat pit. If you can build it someone will buy it.

 

Good to hear from you Rocketeer, working a lot sucks but working less sucks more! Being in crisis management our business is starting to pick as companies are having more difficulty staying open, I was just in Seattle for the last week closing a digital photography company down, even though it was profitable it couldnt secure the additional funding to keep it going.

 

Pit building is slow but I'm starting to design the actual structure and I'm hoping to start building soon. I'm still on my generic approach, I want to build the structure with the controls I have so I have a flyable in progress pit. I'll add the switches as I go, and I have a couple flat screen monitor I'd like to use for the abris and gauges. I'm looking at modifying an X45 throttle to use as a collective control without having to re-invent the wheel. I'm looking at if I can detach the throttle handle add an extension to the throttle arm then re-attach the handle sideways. The throttle would remain the same and the joystick half of it would be hacked to provide switces/axis', now if I can just do it!

 

EDIT: I'm all talk and no action lately gotta get going on this stuff.............

[CAT_101st]

@Cat I was wondering for a while why you have an 850W PSU. Now I know. :)

 

I also plan on getting another 8800GT to SLI or run more screans.

[Orion72]

KA-50 Simpit

 

Still working on another project (1945 Willys MB). Haven't started my simpit yet (see post #167). I plan to start after the first of the year. I'll post some pics as soon as I begin.

 

 

MadDog

[rocketeer]

Hey MadDog,

 

Looking at your pit list in post #167, it's impressive, but if you've not done this before, it may be a problem. While most of us want a pit as realistic as possible, sometimes aiming too high at the start may become a stumbling block. It may cost too much, take too long etc. that you may not end up not starting at all, or quit soon afterwards.

 

I am right now very tight on budget and time, working 2,000 miles away from home! A quick and cheap way to start building a simple pit is to not use steel ribs and wood panels etc. Use foam boards that can be easily cut using a pen knife. You can get them at OfficeMax. You can join them using small L brackets and screws and nuts. I build a few small GA panels using this method. Treat it as prototyping, so that if you screw up the dimensions, it's not as bad as the actual steel frame.

 

Then for electronics, you can start with Hagstrom KE72. Most switches and toggles etc. can be easily hooked up to this board, which in term hooks to the keyboard. No power required. Programing the switches is also very easily, just key in the key combination. Hagstrom boards don't really support output display like LCD, LED, but for input switches, it's a no brainer. CAT is starting with the Hagstrom, I'd probably do that too. I believe I was the one who introduced it to him.

 

There are many more impressive boards, like Open Cockpit's, where they can handle output lights, servos for analog guages etc. But it's more complex. Ask trigger the pit guru about OC.

 

Go for the low hanging fruit first. Build something simple and cheap, and upgrade later. Meanwhile, you'd keep the cost of mistakes low and have something to enjoy sooner, which is important coz the english BS is going to be out soon!

 

Sorry I'm assuming that you're new to pit building. If you're a guru, we'd glad to have your help! Just my two cents.

 

By the way, where do you hail from? North or South Cal? If north, maybe we can meet up and discuss your design over beer with Cat!

[CAT_101st]

I will be posting a review of the KE72 and IOX36 breakout board next weak. I just recived them and will begin the long process of writing the key command TXT file to up load.

Pic's are why I will post the review next weak.

 

Wish me luck...:thumbup::book:

[SunDown]

Guys...I found a great CAD tool and its totally free. You may be aware of it by now. Google Sketchup. Very easy to use and it will be great for cutting costs on my sim pit. I tinkered around with it today and come up with this...

 

Its a great tool. Keep up the good work guys. I love coming to this thread.

 

Sundown

[Orion72]

Appreciate the advice Rocketeer! My basic plan is subject to change. Just a start point. It is the best plan I could come up with based upon my current skills and abilities. I know that there will be problems that arise and adaptations required. I tried to incorperate everything that I wanted in a SimPit. First on the list was a realistic looking cockpit, good sound, and visuals. Secondary was functional toggles and buttons. I will try to add as many toggles, rotary switches, etc... as is practical and my budget will allow. Not all switches will be functional. At this point, I just don't know how many are practical to wire up. Gameplay will probably reveal the answer for that question. I would love to get ahold of a full set of USB Instruments www.simkits.com , however, I would have to cash in on my daughters college savings to fund them... :cry:...not going to happen. The next best thing is static indicators......just for looks. The only thing I would like to do is illuminate the guage. I think that is a project that I can handle. Like you, just need some time and $$$ which I am always in short supply of. I like a challenge! For now, these ideas are just in my head, a few sketches, a scale model, and some notes. I'd love to share my ideas with you and CAT over a cold beer. Live here in Visalia (south of Fresno).

 

MadDog

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Cat and I are both around Stockton up north from you a bit of a drive but could be worse. I'd like to share ideas as well, and I still have racks with Cats name on them (LOL what its been a year almost! busy year though). I'm split between hagstroms and Xkeys I'll probably make a final decision after I hear from Cat exp. I do want to get started in a hurry. Between my current flight set up I can definitely make flyable work in progress, just need that collective control, Urzes set up is awesome I just want to keep my throttle seperate.

[CAT_101st]

I am at a stand still for testing the KE72 as I dont have a PS2 to PS2 cable and my local PC shop does not carry items like that. I tryed the cable from my X52 witch I thought was a PS2 cable (might be not sure) Has all the pins in the right places. The Ke72 loader culd not find the Ke72. I tryed sevral diffrent things with no luck. So a trip to frys is in order to make sure I have all the right parts.

I have half my review dun. just need a working board to finish it. Bu I will say this writing out code for 72 inputs is taking forever :huh:. Why will be in the review. :D

[CAT_101st]

So being as board and puzzeled as I was. I started trying things to see what the problem was. I found out that my MB wont send info to the KE72 but will recive it. So with this in my head I un hucked it from my PC transferd the load program to my wifes PC (my old one) and pluged it in their. I tryed the sample TXT. load and it worked. So I am to the mounting and wiring. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[CAT_101st]

Hagstrom Electronics

KE-72 / IOX36 Review

 

Upon opening the box I found every thing nice and neatly packed. The install of the software is easy. Just a complete copy of the CD to the HD. I then opened the manual and start reading. Easy to fallow instructions, every thing is shown on how to program each keystroke and key combo. Creating a config file is dun threw a TXT. file. All the pins are labeled on the board so you know what pin you are tying your switch to. Adding the break out boards is a cakewalk. Both the IOX36 breakout boards come with a 40-pin IED ribbon to connect to the KE72. After unpacking the IOX36 I notice one end of the IED ribbon is already attached. So all you need to do is mount it with in reach of the KE72 and plug it in. Each connection point is well labeled with the (4) grounds and 36 positives. To connect the wires just insert wire and tighten screw.

Once you created a key file and attached all your switches. Plug the Ke72 into the PS2 keyboard port. You may now run the upload program select the TXT file and the port you connected the ke72 too. Hit apply it uploads and that is it. You have working switches to your PC. The KE72 allows you to plug your PS2 keyboard into in and works with no conflict to the KE72. I also asked Hagstrom if you could daisy chain several KE72 in a row. The answer is YES as long as the total length of cable is less than 10 feet. So with a USB keyboard and using 3ft PS2 cables it would easily hook 3 together to have 216 key commands at your disposal. To program each KE72 with its own set of key commands they must be hooked up one at a time. Then you can link them after words.

After attaching the Ke72 to my PS2 keyboard port. I tried to load the sample TXT file to it. My PC could not find it. (I thought it might be the PS2 cable I stole from my X52). I then attached an old PS2 keyboard to the KE72 and got good connection. So if I the cable is good what is wrong with it I thought. I wired one switch to the breakout board and tried it. It works!! Cool, So why cant I load to the KE72?? After reading threw the book and online (no help their) one sentence triggered a thought (try your wife’s PC). I transferred the KE72 to my wife’s PC and tried to load the sample TXT file BAM "loading" sweet.

After that hole ordeal I got started wiring the breakout boards. The Wiring is easy strip the end of the wire and insert in hole and tighten the screw down. As you due this you will need to keep track of what switch is connected to witch port. I sujest printing out a list of the switches you will wire up and Wright in the location 1-36 on the break out board. Since you will have 2 of these the 2nd one will be 37-72.

 

Ok for the programming of a switch. It did not take me long to figure out how to Wright the code. Every thing is spelled out for you. I would sujest copy and paste allot to save time. Here is how it works.

IN01: (switch on)

IN01| (switch off)

You can have 32 keystrokes for the on and 16 for the off. To start off easy a simple command (lock target=Enter)

IN02:[Enter]

on activation you will get a signal keystroke Without the release code nothing happens when releasing the button.

Ok something a little more complex. A switch with several commands (shift+alt+g)

IN12:[(+)LShift][(+)LAlt][G][(-)LAlt][(-)LShift]

IN12|[(+)LShift][(+)LAlt][G][(-)LAlt][(-)LShift]

This will give you the left shift + left Alt + G

So if you have 72 switches that require a key press for on and off you have 144 command lines to Wright. The release command line does not have to be the same as the activate command. So many options are out their if you need them. These commands make it possible for me to flip the cover off the battery and flip the switch then flip the cover back down with a single flip of a switch. There are all kinds of commands that you can add in I did not cover (like a delay press).

Besides the little hiccup with the load program once it was worked out it worked flawlessly. Using a testing program I was able to see how the PC/game would see the key presses. I did find a few bad command lines (being tired wile typing not good). I was able to go back and fix them. Now all I need id DCS Black Shark to try it out on. The KE72 is a great tool for pit building. It is limited compared to other boards. But with the easy programming of command lines and wiring I highly recommend this to newer cockpit builders. I rate it a 8 1/2 out of 10.

 

Thanks all for reading

Some Pics will be up noon Saturday maybe Sunday

[okolovos oko]

cat one advice for that mobo and video card..8800series are good but they dont energy savings power like 9800gtx..ur mobo has option to shut off ur main video cards when not dealing with 3d..ur mobo graphics takes over and ur main graphs shut off..but this only works like i said with 9800 not 8800 cards..it is cool litle power saviour..

 

I have same mobo and very happy with it.

[Orion72]

KA-50 Simpit Work In Progress

 

Still in my planning stages. Working out the bugs before I start building. I've put together a 3d model via Google Sketchup program. Thanks for the CAD tool Sundown! Anyway, this the the design concept for my simpit structure. See post #167 for more detail.

 

 

MadDog

[SunDown]

No problem. It is a great no hassle application. I've already got my pit modeled and ready to purchase materials. I'm not on CAT's level or some of the other great innovators, but I'm happy with it. Keep up the good work. This thread spawns everyones imagination and is a great resource for pit builders.

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Hey Cat reading up on you problems with the KE72 would a PS/2 to USB connector help? I have a few of these adaptors for plugging in old keyboards and mice to usb might help. In my work I always hoard misc. PC cabling, IDE stuff network cables, monitor extension cables etc...... stuff always seems to come in handy let me know if you need any of it!

[CAT_101st]

OK here is the KE72 and IOX36's mounted

 

 

Starting to wire it up.:D

[CAT_101st]

Still in my planning stages. Working out the bugs before I start building. I've put together a 3d model via Google Sketchup program. Thanks for the CAD tool Sundown! Anyway, this the the design concept for my simpit structure. See post #167 for more detail.

[

 

MadDog I would go with a simple panels/switchs and buttons for your first go. I plan going all out for the AH64A. This KA50 pit is just a learning/collecting phase to get me all the thing I need for the AH64.

But it looks good.

 

Hey Cat reading up on you problems with the KE72 would a PS/2 to USB connector help? I have a few of these adaptors for plugging in old keyboards and mice to usb might help. In my work I always hoard misc. PC cabling, IDE stuff network cables, monitor extension cables etc...... stuff always seems to come in handy let me know if you need any of it!

 

It is working on my PC now. the loader works just fine. Not sure why, But may have to do with the new PS2 M-M cable. The only thing that I might need (other than my promised shelvs) is some CAT5 cable. I curintly have plenty but you never know.

 

 

 

@SunDown >that App is great it helped me figure out that I instaled the IDE cable on upside down :doh: . And dont wory about what you build as long as you are happy with it. My first pit was nuthing but a tilted tray for my keyboard and mounts for my HOTAS. :thumbup:

 

okolovos oko

I realy don't care about power saving. If I ever get the money to upgrade agin I will go with two 9800GTX's. And yes it is a great MB. What CPU do you have?

 

My next project is the PVI NAV panel. Im thinking of comming up with a desine to sell. Have about 500 made to keep them cheap. But that is a pipe dream right now.:sorcerer:

Edited November 9, 2008 by CAT_101st

[Orion72]

Progression of design concept :

 

Great work on the electronics end of your project CAT! I hope you can help me out when I get to that point. I will follow your advice on keeping my electronic controls simple at first. For now, I am concentrating my efforts on the structural and ergonomic aspect of my simpit. I want it to closely resemble the KA-50 as much as possible. With the Google CAD tool, I have been able to refine my original design dimentions and have gotten it pretty close to what I am shooting for. The only thing missing is the outer skin and door. Let me know what you all think.

 

 

MadDog :joystick: