F/A-18 toggle switches - trying to confirm part numbers

HammerUK9 · May 8, 2020

Hello all,

I've gone through the sim and the NATOPS manual confirming the functioning of each switch, and cross checked with as many good photos as I can.

In the attached XLS file I've listed all the toggle switches, their function, and (as best as I can find) the genuine part number based on the publicly available Honeywell and Eaton catalogues.

I'm a little hesitant on the switches listed as 'standard' - whilst most of them look like they're out of the Honeywell TL series, all the UFC switches are clearly something different and I can't tell what. Also the HDG/CRS switches don't seem to have enough room behind the panel to accommodate a TL switch.

Whilst I think I've identified the Flaps switch, the Launch Bar switch still intrigues me. The base looks like a locking type switch but I've yet to find a clear photo showing the lock configuration.

If anyone can either verify the information I've got or help fill in the blanks, I'd be very appreciative. Cheers!

PS I am a member of and have posted this to HornetPits as well - I'll try not to duplicate too much across both forums.

Panel Controls.pdf

obious · May 9, 2020

This is awesome! thanks!

HammerUK9 · May 9, 2020

This is awesome! thanks!

You're welcome! Although take it with a pinch of salt for now.

For instance, the domed locking switches could be from the TL series, I've gone with the AT series because of some F-15 panels I've seen the back side of.

Likewise, some of the locking actions are slight guesses. For instance, I've seen no image of the Probe switch. I've gone with locked-in-centre simply because it makes good sense to me based on the detailed function description of the switch, and how it would be practically employed. But I'm more than happy to be corrected.

DeadMeat · May 9, 2020

We're in deep rivet counter territory here :)

Here's my notes on toggle switches. I've spent a fair amount of time peering through datasheets and staring at pictures of elastomer seals and locking levers.. I think I may have some input on the ones you are uncertain about. Of course if someone had access to real panels it would be easier for us all :smartass:

Delimitations

Poles can be 1, 2 or 4 affecting how heavy the throw is.

Without a look on the back of a real panel we can't be sure how many poles a switch has. Below is 1-pole equivalent. I go for 2-poles where I can fit them for the heavier feel.

Termination is the same way - we can't see what it is without a look on the back. The same switch can come in many different termination versions e.g. screw, solder turret, solder lug, IWTS, lead wire, terminal pin, angled terminal pin, spade etc. Below is the the most prevalent version available.

Circuitry can also vary between e.g. ON-OFF-ON and ON-ON-ON. We'd need the actual P/N to determine it, but it doesn't matter since both types would work in a simpit.

Also, the same locking lever style is used on many types of switches, e.g.

Pointy top: Eaton 884x, 885x etc. many types also older P/N series

Flat top: Honeywell TW, OTTO T3

Round head: Honeywell TL, some AT, some TW; OTTO T1, T9; Eaton 850x is noticably pointier

Elongated round head: Honeywell AT, Eaton A3

I think it was mentioned in another thread that panels can vary a bit between manufacturers and on pictures of a given hornet any panel can have been serviced or swapped out. Some of the best pictures online are of the Swiss fam trainer (a D model it looks like). Not sure how strict they have been in matching exact P/Ns when servicing the panels in that though.

Here's my current list

[i]Nomenclature[/i]
-Panel/switch          action            (notes or specific switch)

Action: ON = maintainted, (ON) = momentary, (ON)* = solenoid held
Locking: ON<-OFF = locked in direction of "ON", ON<->OFF = locked in both directions
Position: keyway - center - opposite keyway (Eaton catalogue is the opposite way)

[i]Regular switches[/i]
[b]2 position switch (e.g large 1TL1-3 or 8500K9, or small 11TW1-3 or 8868K7): 10[/b]
-ALE-39/Reset          ON-ON             (doesn't belong in the DCS hornet bureau no.)
-FCS/Gain override     ON-ON             (1TL1-3)
-Gen tie/Gen tie       ON-ON             (1TL1-3)
-HUD/Brightness        ON-ON             (tan seal indicates 8868K4)
-HUD/Altitude          ON-ON             (tan seal indicates 8868K4)
-Int lts/Test lights   (ON)-ON           (11TW1-8)
-Ldg gear/Ldg lights   ON-ON             (like 1TL133-3 but with screw instead of center jewel)
-MC/Hyd override       ON-ON             (1TL1-3)
-Sensor/LST            ON-ON             (1TL1-3)
-Spin/Spin recovery    ON-ON             (11TW1-3)

[b]2 position locking switch, round head Honeywell/Micro Switch style: 4[/b]
-FCS bit/FCS bit       (ON)<-ON          (1TL1-8F, also seen as pointy Eaton on some Hornets)
-Nuc/Nuclear consent   ON<->ON           (1TL1-3D)
-OBOGS/OBOGS           ON<->ON           (1TL1-3D)
-Wing fold/AV Cooling  (ON)<-ON          (1TL1-8F)

[b]2 position locking switch, pointy head Cutler-Hammer/Eaton style: 7[/b]
-Comms/ILS UFC         ON<->ON           (8855K8)
-Comms/Master          ON<-ON           (8855K7)
-C.measures/Aux rel    ON<->ON           (8855K8)
-Elec/Gen L            ON<->ON           (8855K8)
-Elec/Gen R            ON<->ON           (8855K8)
-Ldg gear/Anti skid    ON<->ON           (8855K8)
-Master/Master arm     ON<->ON           (8855K8)

[b]2 position locking switch, flat top Honeywell/Micro Switch style: 1[/b]
-Ext lts/Int wing      ON<->ON           (11TW1-3D, also seen as round top, e.g. 1TL1-3D)

[b]3 position switch (e.g large 1TL1-1 or 8500K1, or small 11TW1-1 or 8868K1): 21[/b]
-AMPCD/HDG             (ON)-OFF-(ON)     (red seal and space constraint indicates 8869K2X)
-AMPCD/CRS             (ON)-OFF-(ON)     (red seal and space constraint indicates 8869K2X)
-Ant select/Comm 1     ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1)
-Ant select/IFF        ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1)
-Comms/Mode 4          ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1)
-ECS/Eng anti ice      (ON)-OFF-ON       (1TL1-5)
-EFEI/Video rcrd 1     ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1/DCS hornet doesn't match NATOPS for the bureau no.)
-EFEI/Video rcrd 2     ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1/DCS hornet doesn't match NATOPS for the bureau no.)
-EFEI/Video rcrd 3     ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1/DCS hornet doesn't match NATOPS for the bureau no.)
-Ext lts/Strobe        ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1)
-Fan test/Fan test     (ON)-OFF-(ON)     (1TL1-7, omitted on DCS hornet)
-Fire test/test        (ON)-OFF-(ON)     (8501K2)
-Gnd pwr/Reset         (ON)-OFF-ON       (1TL1-5)
-HUD/Reject            ON-OFF-ON         (tan seal indicates 8868K1)
-HUD/Attitude          ON-OFF-ON         (tan seal indicates 8868K1)
-HUD/video             ON-OFF-ON         (tan seal indicates 8868K1)
-Ldg gear/Flaps        ON-OFF-ON         (12TW19-1-A002 or something like 8533K1C27)
-Seat/Seat adjust      (ON)-OFF-(ON)     (1TL1-7)
-Sensor/FLIR           ON-OFF-ON         (1TL1-1)
-Spin/IR cooling       ON-OFF-ON         (red seal and space constraint indicates 8869K1X)
-UFC/ADF               ON-OFF-ON         (1TW1-1, sub miniature)

[b]3 position locking switch, round head Honeywell/Micro Switch style: 4[/b]
-C.measures/Dispenser  ON<->OFF<->ON     (1TL1-1A)
-ECS/ECS Mode          ON<->OFF<->ON     (1TL1-1A)
-Elec/Battery          ON<->OFF<->ON     (1TL1-1A)
-Fuel/Refuel probe     ON<-OFF->ON       (1TL1-1E, uncertain, could also be 1TL1-A)

[b]3 position locking switch, pointy head Cutler-Hammer/Eaton style: 3[/b]
-Comms/RLY             ON<->OFF<->ON     (8855K4)
-Comms/G XMT           ON<->OFF<->ON     (8855K4)
-Defog/Anti ice        ON<-OFF->ON       (8855K5)

[b]3 position locking switch, flat top Honeywell/Micro Switch style: 5[/b]
-Comms/Crypto          (ON)-OFF->(ON)    (11TW1-7N, action is debatable, also seen as pointy Eaton)
-ECS/Cabin press       ON<->OFF<->ON     (11TW1-1A)
-Fuel/Ext tks wing     ON<->OFF<->ON     (11TW1-1A, also seen as 1TL1-1A)
-Fuel/Ext tks center   ON<->OFF<->ON     (11TW1-1A, also seen as 1TL1-1A)
-Int lts/NVIS          ON<->OFF<->ON     (11TW1-1A)

[i]---Mag switches. P/Ns are not 100% correct, but the action is and the alternate listed is valid[/i]
[b]2 position mag switch (e.g. 26ET61-T): 1[/b]
-Ldg gear/Hook bypass  (ON)*-ON          (26ET61-T)

[b]2 position locking mag switch (e.g. 26ET61-T-F): 4[/b]
-ECS/Pitot anti ice    (ON)*<-ON         (26ET61-T-F, although non-locking 2-position on some hornets)
-Engine/APU            (ON)*<-ON         (26ET61-T-F)
-Fuel/Fuel dump        (ON)*<-ON         (26ET61-T-F)
-LTD/R                 (ON)*<-ON         (26ET61-T-F, updated to two-position switch in latest OB)
-Ldg gear/Launch bar   ON->(ON)*         ([url="https://datasheet.octopart.com/26ET86-2-G-Honeywell-datasheet-44398581.pdf"]26ET86-2G[/url], with special T style locking lever)

[b]3 position mag switch (e.g. 27ET61-T): 7[/b]
-Canopy/Canopy         (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T, solenoid only used in one position)
-Engine/Eng crank      (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)
-Gnd pwr/1             (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)
-Gnd pwr/2             (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)
-Gnd pwr/3             (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)
-Gnd pwr/4             (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)
-MC/MC                 (ON)*-ON-(ON)*    (27ET61-T)

Edited May 23, 2020 by DeadMeat
Updated LTD/R mag switch to 2-position.

HammerUK9 · May 9, 2020

Very much appreciated! I'll have a read through tomorrow morning and see what can be amended / incorporated.

You haven't the faintest idea how many rivets ;)

DeadMeat · May 9, 2020

No problem I hope you can use the inspiration. I think I may have missed one or two. Will check it tomorrow.

Both the warthog and the viper have more toggle switches, but I like hornet. I think it has a bit more of an exotic selection what with all the pointy eatons and the huge variety of mag switches. Doesn't make it easy or cheap to collect though :huh:

HammerUK9 · May 10, 2020

Oh definitely - without the excessive levels of crazy that that A-10C panels or even the Harrier have going on.

After you mentioned the launch bar switch was magnetic I went straight to test a suspicion in the sim, and low and behold it works. Incidentally I've just read your thread on how to output WonW state :P

In my list I went for the soldered terminals where possible as I just preferred it that way. Likewise, 1 pole for the space and cost. I do own a 1- and 2-pole TL switch for another project and find the 1-pole to be sufficiently stiff already.

I'm nowhere near trying any programming in DCS, but I took the view that a switch OFF position (instead of ON-ON or ON-ON-ON) was still workable, using the absence of signal as an indicator of position. If that assumption of how DCS input works is wrong, please let me know.

The use of AT series for the domed locking switches is based on this:

Which is the CAS panel of an F-15C. AT also gives me consistency in soldering compared to a mixed TL/AT set. I'm reluctant to use AT series for the standard toggle switches as I can't tell from the catalogue which ones are/aren't sealed and how that sealing appears.

DeadMeat · May 10, 2020

You're absolutely right about DCS BIOS. It has worked fine for me so far.

ON-ON works just as fine as ON-OFF if you only wire a single terminal and ground. That way you get either a signal or nothing, like DCS BIOS expects.

For an ON-ON-ON to work like an ON-OFF-ON you just need to wire common ground and then a single terminal in each end that is not connected in the middle position.

For a TL switch that corresponds to Ground = 2 or 5; Keyway = 4; opposite keyway = 3 See page 3 here.

Same logic goes for Eatons or whatever although their terminals can be named differently so you'd have to check the specific switch, see e.g. page 85 here.

Oh definitely - without the excessive levels of crazy that that A-10C panels or even the Harrier have going on.

After you mentioned the launch bar switch was magnetic I went straight to test a suspicion in the sim, and low and behold it works. Incidentally I've just read your thread on how to output WonW state :P

In my list I went for the soldered terminals where possible as I just preferred it that way. Likewise, 1 pole for the space and cost. I do own a 1- and 2-pole TL switch for another project and find the 1-pole to be sufficiently stiff already.

I'm nowhere near trying any programming in DCS, but I took the view that a switch OFF position (instead of ON-ON or ON-ON-ON) was still workable, using the absence of signal as an indicator of position. If that assumption of how DCS input works is wrong, please let me know.

The use of AT series for the domed locking switches is based on this:

Which is the CAS panel of an F-15C. AT also gives me consistency in soldering compared to a mixed TL/AT set. I'm reluctant to use AT series for the standard toggle switches as I can't tell from the catalogue which ones are/aren't sealed and how that sealing appears.

HammerUK9 · May 10, 2020

With you on that explanation, but I'm querying using an ON-OFF-ON switch in place of an ON-ON-ON switch. Take for example the flaps switch. Would/can DCS BIOS interpret no signal as the HALF position?

I'm gonna try and not end up down a rabbit hole here, just will help my switch selection and cross-checking yours :)

DeadMeat · May 10, 2020

Ah yes now I get it :) Yes, on-off-on will also work fine. It is even easier.

If you check out the DCS BIOS reference documentation (for e.g. the flaps switch) you'll see that the default implementation of the 3 position switch calls for just two input pins (+switch ground pin needs to connect to arduino ground). If there is no signal on either pin then it knows it is in the middle position (well, actually it looks for when you change position).

If you go into advanced view mode, you can also specify discrete pins for each position (like if you have a rotary switch with multiple positions), but for a on-off-on switch you only physically have 2 pins (or 2 pairs if 2-pole), so just use the standard code.

If you have a couple of switches and any arduino it is relatively easy to play around with the circuits and the DCS BIOS code to figure out what works. Just follow the basic examples and work your way up copy+pasting code snippets.

Stang · May 23, 2020

Hey Guys

Great work on this Switch List

Deadmeat, for the Elec/Gen L & R, you mentioned a "beefier" switch.

How about he Honeywell 101TL1-3D ?

WAIT....the ELCT Panel Gen L&R are ON OFF.... not ON<->ON

How about the Cutler-Hammer / Eaton 8857K47 ON<->OFF

Stang out

[quote=DeadMeat;

2 position locking switch, pointy head Cutler-Hammer/Eaton style: 7

-Comms/ILS UFC ON<->ON (8855K8)

-Comms/Master ON<->ON (8855K7)

-C.measures/Aux rel ON<->ON (8855K8)

-Elec/Gen L ON<->ON (8855K8, likely something beefier)

-Elec/Gen R ON<->ON (8855K8, likely something beefier)

-Ldg gear/Anti skid ON<->ON (8855K8)

-Master/Master arm ON<->ON (8855K8)

Edited May 23, 2020 by Stang

HammerUK9 · May 23, 2020

Hey Guys
Great work on this Switch List

Deadmeat, for the Elec/Gen L & R, you mentioned a "beefier" switch.

How about he Honeywell 101TL1-3D ?

WAIT....the ELCT Panel Gen L&R are ON OFF.... not ON<->ON

How about the Cutler-Hammer / Eaton 8857K47 ON<->OFF

Stang out

[quote=DeadMeat;

2 position locking switch, pointy head Cutler-Hammer/Eaton style: 7
-Comms/ILS UFC ON<->ON (8855K8)
-Comms/Master ON<->ON (8855K7)
-C.measures/Aux rel ON<->ON (8855K8)
-Elec/Gen L ON<->ON (8855K8, likely something beefier)
-Elec/Gen R ON<->ON (8855K8, likely something beefier)
-Ldg gear/Anti skid ON<->ON (8855K8)
-Master/Master arm ON<->ON (8855K8)

In my PDF I went with the Eaton 8857K44 - although the K48 would do just as well, the latter being an ON-OFF switch rather than ON-ON.

From the images I have it's locked against the On direction, and suggest it's also locked against the Off direction (this would also be the logical configuration).

I'll be PM'ing you about your plans shortly :)

Edited May 24, 2020 by HammerUK9

Deadman · May 23, 2020

If you are looking for a cone head , two position locking switch the 8855K8 is just fine it is a miniature switch meaning the body of the switch is about .5 inch square nothing beefier is needed

Deadman · May 23, 2020

if i may suggest don't worry about the switch body being beefier find the correct locking bushing style that is in the aircraft find the cheapest switch of that style. I have over 200 used mil spec switch may be 2 have been bad check out the 3rd page for locking bushing styles

DeadMeat · May 23, 2020

Hey Guys

Great work on this Switch List

Deadmeat, for the Elec/Gen L & R, you mentioned a "beefier" switch.

How about he Honeywell 101TL1-3D ?

WAIT....the ELCT Panel Gen L&R are ON OFF.... not ON<->ON

How about the Cutler-Hammer / Eaton 8857K47 ON<->OFF

Stang out

Regarding "beefier", I meant to refer to Honeywell TL series switches. I find that the 1-pole locking switches are noticeably looser than the 2-pole counterparts, comparing e.g. a 1TL1-3D with a 2TL1-D.. Both work fine, so it comes down to your own preference.

ON-ON and ON-OFF circuitry doesn't matter if you run e.g. DCS-BIOS, it can handle both (in code or by how you choose to wire it). Only thing you have to watch out for is the type of locking and the direction, especially if you're dealing with momentary switches.

There's very many different variants of the switches as I wrote - all sorts of terminations, poles, circuitry and generations of switches. If it looks the part and the locking mechanism is right, then you should be good.

If you want the 8857/8858 series for the generator switches you should go for either the 8857K48, 8857K44 or the 8858K44 to get the right locking action. The TL-series has a round head, so you need one of the Eaton/Cutler-Hammer ones. 8855/8856 series would work as well, go for the 8855K8 or 8855K14 or 8856K8, 8856K14.

In my PDF I went with the Eaton 8857K44 - although the K48 would do just as well, the latter being an ON-OFF switch rather than ON-ON.

From the images I have it's locked against the On direction, and suggest it's also locked against the Off direction (this would also be the logical configuration).

I'll be PM'ing you about your plans shortly :)

Spot on. It pays to double check pictures and datasheets before you put money down for mil-spec :)

HammerUK9 · March 21, 2022

Thanks to a very lucky finding on a YouTube video, I've found out that the 3 position landing light switch on the F-15C is the 8906K2423. Significant because it has the same two jewel/centre screw layout of the Hornet switch.

Now just gotta dig in to the catalogue to find the two-position version

neok · February 22

Do we have a list of switches for the throttle? Specifically the speed break switch.

F/A-18 toggle switches - trying to confirm part numbers

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