imacken Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 Sett bombs up for CCIP, then select a waypoint and designate. Bomb mode changes to AUTO despite what it says on DDI. Select CCIP again, OK, then WPDSG another target, and it's back to AUTO again. See track. Is this correct behaviour?Hornet bomb mode change.trk Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
Harker Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 It's correct behavior. CCIP should change to AUTO upon a target designation. It's incorrect, however, that you're able to get CCIP back by selecting it again, after a designation has been made, that's a bug. So you either have CCIP without a target designation or you have AUTO with a target designation (as far as CCIP and AUTO are concerned). From what I've seen and read, Hornet pilots rarely use CCIP, they use AUTO, even for dive attacks, since it allows you to always keep the correct target in view. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro
Captain Orso Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 Really?! In the Harrier CCIP is the delivery method of choice. Auto is if the situation demands it, like you can't get the cross-hair on the target in time, or you cannot dive in because of AAA. CCIP is more accurate than AUTO/CCRP. When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
imacken Posted June 15, 2020 Author Posted June 15, 2020 It's correct behavior. CCIP should change to AUTO upon a target designation. It's incorrect, however, that you're able to get CCIP back by selecting it again, after a designation has been made, that's a bug. So you either have CCIP without a target designation or you have AUTO with a target designation (as far as CCIP and AUTO are concerned). From what I've seen and read, Hornet pilots rarely use CCIP, they use AUTO, even for dive attacks, since it allows you to always keep the correct target in view. Really? You can't select CCIP with a target designated? I find that difficult to believe. What is your source for that? Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
imacken Posted June 15, 2020 Author Posted June 15, 2020 If it is a bug to be able to reselect CCIP, I guess we can use AUTO until a good visual fix is had on the target, and then at the last minute, undesignate, which then switches to CCIP - if it's set, of course. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
AvroLanc Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 Really? You can't select CCIP with a target designated? I find that difficult to believe. What is your source for that? It’s just how it works on the F-18. Sources are hard to come by, but it’s been modelled that way since day 1. A few comments at the time by crew confirming it. Use AUTO 95% of the time. It’s NOT less accurate.
amalahama Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 Really?! In the Harrier CCIP is the delivery method of choice. Auto is if the situation demands it, like you can't get the cross-hair on the target in time, or you cannot dive in because of AAA. CCIP is more accurate than AUTO/CCRP. I wouldn't use the harrier as benchmark...
imacken Posted June 15, 2020 Author Posted June 15, 2020 It’s just how it works on the F-18. Sources are hard to come by, but it’s been modelled that way since day 1. A few comments at the time by crew confirming it. Use AUTO 95% of the time. It’s NOT less accurate. That’s not my experience. CCIP every time for me. Well, not every time, but you know what I mean! Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
Harker Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 Can't list sources, since these are things I read here and elsewhere. Without claiming I have first hand knowledge of course, I've seen several people confirm it. Also, check out this episode of Jetstream at 27:20 The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro
imacken Posted June 16, 2020 Author Posted June 16, 2020 Thanks for that. I can see that a diving CCRP/AUTO works, but I have to ask what is the point? Surely, the old principles still apply, i.e. CCIP - more accurate but more dangerous due to lower altitude. If the altitude advantage is taken away from CCRP/AUTO, then what is the point in using it? Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
Shimmergloom667 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 You keep saying CCIP is more accurate, but with a decent target designation that is literally not true - CCRP/AUTO in a dive should be least as accurate. Sure, CCIP makes it easier to adjust your impact point right up until release, but then it's up to the skill of the pilot to accurately hit that point. i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H
imacken Posted June 16, 2020 Author Posted June 16, 2020 You keep saying CCIP is more accurate, but with a decent target designation that is literally not true - CCRP/AUTO in a dive should be least as accurate. Sure, CCIP makes it easier to adjust your impact point right up until release, but then it's up to the skill of the pilot to accurately hit that point. Sorry, 'you keep saying'? The first time I mentioned that was in my last post! That aside, I'm afraid I just can't see any advantage of a diving CCRP over a CCIP. For example, if you have 8 vehicles at your WP (marked as a target), how does CCRP help in refining the impact point and target individual vehicles? I can easily see the advantages of CCRP when used in level flight, but in a dive? I'm obviously missing something here. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
Flagrum Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 I tend to agree that CCIP can be more accurate than CCRP - given that the symbology is exact. In CCIP, you always see exactly where the wepon will impact. Slight corrections of the aircraft attitude result in precise adjustments of the pipper. In CCRP however, you only have your velocity vector that you have to a align properly in respect to the bomb fall line. Slight attitude corrections are barely visible due to the thickness of the lines of the symbology. One degree deviation is maybe a visual difference of one pixel but it would be clearly visible in fractions of an inch with the CCIP pipper. But maybe this thread isn't the right place to discuss this ...
imacken Posted June 16, 2020 Author Posted June 16, 2020 Maybe it's not the right place, but everything I have ever read states - in very simple terms - that in general, CCIP is more accurate and more dangerous, and CCRP is less accurate and safer. 2 examples attached. Not trying to prove anything, just saying what I have always read over the years. Just can't see why you would want to use CCRP in a dive attack. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box
AvroLanc Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 Guys, they’re both computer calculated modes. All things being equal they will have the exact same accuracy if you account for nothing else. Release profile, designation method (if any) and pilot skill are the factors which affect accuracy. A dive will be more accurate than level , using either AUTO or CCIP. The advantage of auto is you have a TGT designated, hopefully with TGP but at least with WPDSG or Radar. You’re not relying on visually spotting your aim point and hitting the pickle at precisely the correct time. CCIP may be more flexible in a target of opportunity scenario or when you mess up your roll in. Please get over the misconception that AUTO = Level and CCIP = Dive. Not the case.
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