AWG-9 performance in multiplayer.

[GGTharos]

IRL it's done essentially by putting an ellipse over the last or predicted position, and seeing if there is a hit within that ellipse. If it's there, you update the track. If not, you coast the track and try again.

 

With multiple tracks being close, you have to use additional parameters as well and use more coasting - so here an accurate radar is important.

 

The size of the ellipse is governed by a number of things, such as the time between sweeps, speed of the target and expected or overall possible maneuver.

 

But, how WELL it worked? Who knows :)

[QuiGon]

Well, it worked fine before so something simply broke in the last OB.

I didn't notice a change there. The behaviour I described, exists like that more or less since release.

Edited July 27, 2020 by QuiGon

[QuiGon]

But, how WELL it worked? Who knows :)

People that have worked with it IRL should know, so I hope maybe someone here has :)

The theory is clear though :thumbup:

[CarbonFox]

I've had moments where the radar simply doesn't detect much of anything infront of me when I was pointed in the right direction by an AWACS or it doesn't discern the contacts as hostile. Just neutral.

[Airhunter]

I've had moments where the radar simply doesn't detect much of anything infront of me when I was pointed in the right direction by an AWACS or it doesn't discern the contacts as hostile. Just neutral.

 

The AWG doesnt have an auto IFF, the RIO needs to interrogate each contact.

 

Here's an IRL example of ownship contacts.

[Sideburns]

@Heatblur

I feel like the AWG-9 in TWS drops tracks and replaces them with a new track too easily.

 

For example: You're in a hot on duell with a single bandit. You have him on TWS, but then he starts cranking from one side to another and back again. Each time he changes the direction of his crank TWS momentarily drops the track and almost immediately creates a new track for the same bandit going in the other direction now.It seems like the AWG-9 doesn't understand that a bandit can change from flanking left to flanking right (or vice versa) pretty quickly. Instead it just assumes it is a new contact and assigns a new track to it and the old one gets lost.

This makes it very difficult to engage with Phoenixes in TWS, as the track which the Phoenix is going at, gets lost at each direction change of the bandit.

 

Maybe you guys can fine tune this a bit, so that the AWG-9 doesn't take a direction change of a contact for a new contact as easily? :)

 

Bear in mind this is among the earliest fighter based TWS radar systems, has relatively wide Doppler filters and is also designed for the fleet defence role (i.e. high closure targets).

 

Don't get me wrong though, it is annoying filtering through the false TWS contacts.

[QuiGon]

Bear in mind this is among the earliest fighter based TWS radar systems, has relatively wide Doppler filters and is also designed for the fleet defence role (i.e. high closure targets).

 

Don't get me wrong though, it is annoying filtering through the false TWS contacts.

I bear that in mind, but the issue I described isn't really an issue of old technology. It's about how the radar is coded to treat a momentary loss of contact that then reappears with a different own heading. GGTharos described the program logic behind this in more detail and the AWG-9 of our DCS Tomcat is already doing that. It just needs some fine tuning. Some if-values that need to be adjusted ;)

[eatthis]

last night i did a mission and went solo vs 4-5 enemy f14s screaming in at mach 2. tws REFUSED to give me a firing solution, i repeatedly heard a double click from the back and never got a firing solution. ended up stt 1 of them and despite a closure speed of mach 3! the missile missed from 35 miles. damn thing was tracking lovely then just straightened up at the last second. bandit wasnt turning much and certainly wasnt notching.

any suggestions?

[QuiGon]

any suggestions?

Upload a track and/or TacView file so we can a look at what happened exactly.

[eatthis]

Upload a track and/or TacView file so we can a look at what happened exactly.

 

how do i upload a tacview?

[DoorMouse]

Go to your Saved Games folder and look for DCS/Tracks, youll probably have a ton, you'll need to find the correct one. Sort by date.

[eatthis]

Go to your Saved Games folder and look for DCS/Tracks, youll probably have a ton, you'll need to find the correct one. Sort by date.

 

i have the track (long though) but how do i put it here?

[DoorMouse]

Go to Advanced Options, Look in Additional Options. Click Manage Attachments

 

From Manage Attachements pick one of the 3 slots to "Choose File"

 

Once you choose it, hit UPLOAD

 

Once it uploads successfully close the window.

 

Id also take a look at their guide here, they get a million bug requests and this will help them sort things: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253852

[eatthis]

not much to see really, all you see is me turning in and firing a single phoenix (in stt) bloody thing missed lol and another that apparantly went for chaff .

 

tried to do it and it says invalid file

[DoorMouse]

if it went for chaff then maybe it just missed.

 

If you have one that STT tracked the whole way in, had energy, and just plain didnt turn while you still had lock - That could be something?

[eatthis]

Then that sounds like you just missed in STT, and not a bug.

 

all 3 missed, not really complaining about that (although ive never had 3 all miss before) its the fact i had to got stt in the 1st place and simply couldnt get anything in tws

[DoorMouse]

I'd really love to hear a reply on this. The 14 has become incredibly frustrating to fly in multiplayer since the last patch, and supposedly no changes were made.

 

I assume that means A) ED changed something that screwed up the Radar and therefore Jester's logic is messed up. And/Or B) ED changed the guidance of missiles again without informing anyone, screwing up the AIM 7 and the AIM 54 since they are both SAHR missiles.

[Bearfoot]

I'd really love to hear a reply on this. The 14 has become incredibly frustrating to fly in multiplayer since the last patch, and supposedly no changes were made.

 

I assume that means A) ED changed something that screwed up the Radar and therefore Jester's logic is messed up. And/Or B) ED changed the guidance of missiles again without informing anyone, screwing up the AIM 7 and the AIM 54 since they are both SAHR missiles.

 

+1

[DoorMouse]

SO i just did a super un-scientific test and made a singleplayer mission. Everything seemed to work, and phoenixes actually goddamn tracked their targets, the radar didnt drop locks all over the place.

 

I have a feeling it has to do with multiplayer with many players/ground units/stuff going on causing issues with the radar when it tries to reconcile all the players positions.

Edited July 31, 2020 by DoorMouse

[QuiGon]

SO i just did a super un-scientific test and made a singleplayer mission. Everything seemed to work, and phoenixes actually goddamn tracked their targets, the radar didnt drop locks all over the place.

 

I have a feeling it has to do with multiplayer with many players/ground units/stuff going on causing issues with the radar when it tries to reconcile all the players positions.

I have flown the F-14 in MP (Blue Flag server) as a RIO after the latest update and have not noticed any difference in radar or missile performance :dunno:

[eatthis]

I have flown the F-14 in MP (Blue Flag server) as a RIO after the latest update and have not noticed any difference in radar or missile performance :dunno:

 

lucky you

[DoorMouse]

Ive had more luck with a human rio- IT may be that the MLC issue has broken Jester's brain and hes dropping tracks, not locking stt, and missiles are trashing because of it?

 

Im going to test some TWS shots this weekend with a human, but as of right now its almost entirely broken in multiplayer and you have to STT ACM all your phoenixes to get any hits. I used to be able to get 60-70 mile shots from 30k fairly reliably (under correct conditions, non maneuvering climbing target, 1000knots closure, 10kft-20kft altitude). I have not seen a single hit, even if somehow mercifully the track lasts long enough to pitbull.

Edited July 31, 2020 by DoorMouse

[eatthis]

Ive had more luck with a human rio- IT may be that the MLC issue has broken Jester's brain and hes dropping tracks, not locking stt, and missiles are trashing because of it?

 

Im going to test some TWS shots this weekend with a human, but as of right now its almost entirely broken in multiplayer and you have to STT ACM all your phoenixes to get any hits. I used to be able to get 60-70 mile shots from 30k fairly reliably. I have not seen a single hit, even if somehow mercifully the track lasts long enough to pitbull.

 

ed definately ****ed something didnt they! were having loads of problems but theyre a pig to reproduce which i know makes life bloody hard for heatblur