S77th-konkussion Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 Yep. This is tantamount to yelling at your enemy- "Stand still so I can kill you, dammit!!" 2 [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 Yep. All we can hope for is that ED will release a 1.13 patch eventually and make things resemble reality a little more - it doesn't mean you can't practice 'good habits' right now - they do work. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 20m exploit is weak. If I find you online doing it, youll end up commiting suicide. ;) .
golfsierra2 Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 I didnt want to start another 50 page thread but I cant resist biting on this.. Surely an exploit is when you take advantage of poor modelling (ecm blinking/ET landmines/ sub 20m flying for missile evasion - all of which ive noticed is much less common now). Who said it is due to poor modeling ? IRL a missile would maneuver a lot, too, eating up it's energy. It's no exploit. It's a defensive maneuver within the limits of this simulation. The best thing to overcome this 'disadvantage' would be mirroring the maneuvers. At least your opponents missiles would suffer from the same physics model. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
Aeroscout Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 It's funny that people call everything an exploit ... I mean what are you going to do, sit there and do nothing in fear of ... doing something that's an exploit? Seriously. This is exactly what I feel like online. I keep thinking "don't hit that chaff button, don't fly low, don't barrel roll, don't fire too many missiles etc etc" and before long, I forget completely about that missile tracking me and I'm blown out of the sky! DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices
RvEYoda Posted March 9, 2008 Posted March 9, 2008 20m exploit is weak. If I find you online doing it, youll end up commiting suicide. ;) Ive heard a lot of people say this. Sadly everyone who tried to prove it with me has ended up a smoking cloud. What would be most fun if they put in a temporary script that made "radar failure, X engine failure" after a few minutes too low ;) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
cool_t Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 This is exactly what I feel like online. I keep thinking "don't hit that chaff button, don't fly low, don't barrel roll, don't fire too many missiles etc etc" and before long, I forget completely about that missile tracking me and I'm blown out of the sky! Ahhh, dont let whom ever get at your "Intuition" do what you feel will bring you out on top in a Dog Fight/BVR. Use all of your Jets chaff/flares, guns, fuel, 20m flight, roll the missiles out of energy, mad-dog, Split S and run for home! Forget all of the "Negitive" things and foucus on Killing bandits. Just dont hit the screen print button when your engaged in a battle, or crash your jet into the ground to avoid a Kill.:music_whistling:
RvEYoda Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I should make a lomac fight macro. 1 - automatic barell roll - click button if in danger 2 - IF missile launch : pump 20 chaff in 1 sec and Printscreen once 3 - Terrain following radar mode : Export position and elevation data and flight data from LUA to external software providing stick input. 5m flying in the mountains :P. 4 - Automatic corner speed (with the above) for dogfight :P. Use "Left-turn"-button 5 - Amraam locator : Can't see the bandit ? Don't worry! Click the "amraam locator button" and watch 4 amraams fired in a box shape, one will turn for the bandit, and LUA will tell me which (and where) it went :). 6 - "Shoot down enemy missile"-macro : figure it out yourselves. 7 - "Guns kill"-button : press when enemy locked within 1nm, automatic stick control and fire through lua 8 - Helmet mounted 3d RWR (you see the text "mig29 spike" on screen from where he is :P) 9 - Automatic maddog mode : LUA can provide info about positioning and locked targets, AKA "Dogfight mode-switch" Lots of opportunities in the land of lomac :D S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Gunja Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 2 - IF missile launch : pump 20 chaff in 1 sec and Printscreen once heheheh the rest are funny too, but this one made me LOL
Pilotasso Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 what about a funny macro to turn off ECM and dump all chaff at take off? There are alreaDY macros to eject the player. 1 .
Excelsior Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 There are alreaDY macros to eject the player. :megalol: Never actually thought of that. Though probably best to place it on a G key well away from any other commands or instead of my chaff/flare x2 macro (Flare - Chaff - Flare - chaff) it will be the silk elevator. :pilotfly::lol: "No matter where you go, there you are" Intel E-8400 "Wolfdale" - Asus Maximus Formula - Swiftech H2O 120 4 Gb G.Skill PC2-8000C5 - EVGA 8800 GTS 512 - Dell 2707WFP WD Caviar 500Gb - Vista 64
Teknetinium Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Here is the view of the 169th and therefor our server. Flying under 20m is cool but you'll still get killed by Radar missiles. Flying under 10m is cooler and you wont get hit by radar missiles if you can sustain it for long enough. Good for you. In fact, in our brief we've allowed for it to make it more "realisitc" Exerpt from briefing: Technological Advances: Radio-Active Chaff: Dump enough and spoof any radar missile. Anti-Radar Paint: Both sides now have special paint that confuses any radar signal when flying below 10 metres. IR tracking Sam Sites: Mobile medium range SAMS are able to track targets via IR optics. Only after the missile is launched do they show on RWR's. As far as any other so called "exploits" you care to mention. If it doesn't involve hacking LOPE-ing, "PrintScreening" quitting in mid-flight, or intentional lawn-dartism then its fine by us. All these things are detectable and can be given as evidence in our "Evidence Room" and we will do our best to deter them from happening again. In our view it is not fair to enforce your values of "realism" on others. Just play the game as it was designed in the first place. I couldn't put it better Ice thx for the good words. Things are going out off hands some time, braking lock is exploited, that's the new thing. :) 51st PVO Discord SATAC YouTube
rattler Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 What is wrong with breaking lock with A/C manuevers. I thought that is what a pilot is supposed to do. Use his knowledge and A/C to avoid missles etc. Look at what the Corsair Pilot did in NAM against MIgs, would you call that exploit. He even flew straight at them with no weapons did a High g pull up and outran them. His Actions turned into a training manuel. AS long as his flight activity is concerned, if it stays within the confines of good flying ability to avoid missles good on him. No exploit in my book just good common sense flying. I can't see where he did anything wrong, if he did please point it out. As far as I see it, he used the capability of the A/C and chafe to avoid being shot down, good on him. He did not fly beyond the capability of the A/C so what is the problem.:pilotfly:
Pilotasso Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I couldn't put it better Ice thx for the good words. Things are going out off hands some time, braking lock is exploited, that's the new thing. :) zigzaging actualy breaks lock IRL. At least they used to in older gen radars. The latest ones will put up more of a fight. The thing being discussed here is how missiles in LOMAC do not have trajectory filters to prevent them from expending their energy needlessly. .
Pilotasso Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Ive heard a lot of people say this. Sadly everyone who tried to prove it with me has ended up a smoking cloud. What would be most fun if they put in a temporary script that made "radar failure, X engine failure" after a few minutes too low ;) Everyone who doubted me went for a little swim. :D But thats OK, we're talking about full blown online missions not 1 on 1 deathmatches. One is totaly different than the other for the simple reason, the increased set of variables with many players increases your level of incertainty and hesitations. "should I press to target" or "should I just come all this way to shoot a specific player out of the sky all alone". .
PoleCat Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 I agree with Ice on this one. It is just good sense. It is how it is. There is and will be no consensus, just differing opinions. Get used to it. Short of ECM blinking macros and real cheating I do not see a problem here. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Out http://www.104thphoenix.com/
nscode Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AScJDxUQ6c just look at this guy zigzaging left and right.. damn exploiter. he should be banned from all the servers! (note to mods: look at the vid before you think of locking the thread because of this post :D) Once more, I should say that the flying at 20m exploit was successfully used IRL (at that part of the flight two Serbian MIGs from the splash two incident remained completely undetected). ==================== I am amazed by how lomac nicely models the life cycle of missiles. They get developed. Then used. Then imperfections are found, rendering them less and less usable against opponents who know of these imperfections. The missiles then need improvement, and further development. Yes, the exact ways these imperfections are manifested IRL and ILL (In Lockon Life :D) differ, but they always will. The simulation will never be perfect. While this is no reason to stop us striving for a more realistic model, once more I repeat that this should not stand in the way of enjoying what we have. One day the model will change (we hope), and we'll have to learn again how it works best, and how to defeat it best. Until then, we should accept what we have and try our best to achieve as much as we can in what is our reality. 2 Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
Vekkinho Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AScJDxUQ6c just look at this guy zigzaging left and right.. damn exploiter. he should be banned from all the servers! This ain't zigzaging, it's panic! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted March 10, 2008 Posted March 10, 2008 Once more, I should say that the flying at 20m exploit was successfully used IRL (at that part of the flight two Serbian MIGs from the splash two incident remained completely undetected). Serbia is highly mountanious and AWACS did had difficulty picking many other serbian aircraft for the same reason. It wouldnt work over water against fighters like it does here. Missiles wouldnt have difficulty guiding. Specialy AIM-9's wich IRL have a range of 9 miles, not 9 km like in LOMAC. ;) .
cool_t Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 :) This ain't zigzaging, it's panic! Watch the Video again, this guy is good. Listen to him breath and talk during the defencive moves. Also how many SAM contrails did you see, 3, 4,? Also LOMAC is lomac and ground clutter is a real deal. Bleeding missiles of there energy works if you can do it right. :joystick:
RvEYoda Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 I think low flying is somewhat valid VS rdr sams since they usually have a specified lowest engagement altitude if i'm not completely mistaken. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Weta43 Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 Watch the Video again, this guy is good. Listen to him breath and talk during the defencive moves. Also how many SAM contrails did you see, 3, 4,? He is, & he gets away, which is good, but I think I only saw the smoke from flares, not missile exhaust trails ... Anyway - I completely agree with nscode's post above ^ Cheers.
Geier Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 He is, & he gets away, which is good, but I think I only saw the smoke from flares, not missile exhaust trails ... Anyway - I completely agree with nscode's post above ^ No, I suppose those smokes are SAM exhaust. look esp missile launch and ;)
nscode Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 Serbia is highly mountanious and AWACS did had difficulty picking many other serbian aircraft for the same reason. ... Yes, but this was up in the north, where it's mostly flat, with just one 500m high "mountain" in the middle.. and they weren't even using that, so no it wasn't terrain masking, just flying real low. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
Pilotasso Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 I think you just contradicted yourdelf. :) What is flying low but to use terrain masking? Its not there just to put you there between yourself and a radar source. It also reflects much noise. .
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