Afterburner detent

[MustangSally]

Finger lifts are only for moving the throttle from idle to cut-off. It does nothing for AB. Winwings throttles uses the finger lifts springs to give resistance when pushing the throttle through the AB detents. And although this recreates the correct "feel" this is not how the real jet operates. Again, it functions correctly and "feels" the same, it is simply not the same mechanism designed in the hornet. It is transparent to the gamer.

 

There is nothing keeping the pilot from using AB with weight on wheels. There is no finger lifts or lock-out mechanism associated with the AB on the real hornet. Be happy to share a vid of me using AB on a night field take off.

 

If you need f18 correct "feel " AB detents for the TM WH i can make them for you. Contact me in discord.

 

"........ have seen conflicting information."

There is much out there.

 

 

A1-F18AC-NFM-000 - 2.1.1.7.2

[Lex Talionis]

A1-F18AC-NFM-000 page I-2-4. Or page 31 if you're looking at the same PDF as me.

 

I've not much comprehension of what the 32lbs of force feels like, but it is simply a case of relying on that rather than bothering with the finger lifts if using MAX to depart from the boat?

 

Great thanks. I will see if i can upload a screenshot of the book page when i get home, read it in context and wrap my head arround why it is worded the way it is.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[BuzzU]

So, WinWing got it wrong? Don't you have to use the finger lifts to get AB with their throttle?

 

All this time I thought what I was using wasn't realistic which is Warthog with push through detent.

[Lex Talionis]

So, WinWing got it wrong? Don't you have to use the finger lifts to get AB with their throttle?

 

All this time I thought what I was using wasn't realistic which is Warthog with push through detent.

 

They "feel" correct, it is just the actual mechanical mechanisms isnt the same. I wouldn't expect it to be either, doesn't need to be.

 

The switch panel on the other hand, very frustrating.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[Lex Talionis]

A1-F18AC-NFM-000 - 2.1.1.7.2

 

For me it is 1-5 interm change 3.

 

It does in fact say that, winner for the abstract hornet NATOPS knowledge...

 

.... but the finger lifts for AB is literally never used in practical application. And as noted by others, it is more a function of the "32 lbs of force" wich is ultimately transparent to the pilot as you simply push harder for the same result.

 

Pulling the finger lifts in flight was a relatively scary notion given it meant the engine could be inadvertantly shut down. In short, you would certainly never do this during flight, or with the intention to fly, unless an emergency procedure guided otherwise.

 

There are incidents where flight suit wrist cuffs have caught and raisd finger lifts leading to inadvertent shutdowns in flight. Along with inadvertent ejections from the stick catching the ejection loop in the full aft position. There is always nuance between what is written and how it is implemented.

 

EDIT: my natops is from the late 90s, wonder if there is an update that changes the wording given that entire paragraph is an amendment in and of its self.

 

Hope this puts the controversy to bed.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[maxTRX]

... Along with inadvertent ejections from the stick catching the ejection loop in the full aft position. There is always nuance between what is written and how it is implemented...

 

I've heard about this... on these forums, I think

I design/testing team should've had their paychecks garnished for years:noexpression:

 

As far as the detent goes... I definitely need my Warthog modified before I start my BFM/ACM re-training. Last time did some gun fights I almost sprained my wrist lifting the throttles and shoving them forward so, I started lifting them from below and behind with my palms facing up. It doesn't take much force but when you factor in some dogfighting zeal... I would say I applied more then 32lbs upwords:D. I don't foresee a long life for my Warthog.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Gripes323

[BuzzU]

I've heard about this... on these forums, I think

I design/testing team should've had their paychecks garnished for years:noexpression:

 

As far as the detent goes... I definitely need my Warthog modified before I start my BFM/ACM re-training. Last time did some gun fights I almost sprained my wrist lifting the throttles and shoving them forward so, I started lifting them from below and behind with my palms facing up. It doesn't take much force but when you factor in some dogfighting zeal... I would say I applied more then 32lbs upwords:D. I don't foresee a long life for my Warthog.

 

This is a better option.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/5WVVPYK26/thrustmaster-warthog-push-through-ab-detent

[maxTRX]

This is a better option.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/5WVVPYK26/thrustmaster-warthog-push-through-ab-detent

Yep, looks like it is, thanks.

[Lex Talionis]

I've heard about this... on these forums, I think

I design/testing team should've had their paychecks garnished for years:noexpression:

 

As far as the detent goes... I definitely need my Warthog modified before I start my BFM/ACM re-training. Last time did some gun fights I almost sprained my wrist lifting the throttles and shoving them forward so, I started lifting them from below and behind with my palms facing up. It doesn't take much force but when you factor in some dogfighting zeal... I would say I applied more then 32lbs upwords:D. I don't foresee a long life for my Warthog.

 

Ya, there is a blurb in the NATOPS more recent interm changes that says something like, with the seat adjusted full up, and the stick full aft, the grip may catch the ring ....

 

I have two AB detents, 3d printed and aluminum. The profile makes the TM "feel" correct and looks very similar to the part listed by BuzzU. Its an easy fix.

[MustangSally]

They "feel" correct, it is just the actual mechanical mechanisms isnt the same. I wouldn't expect it to be either, doesn't need to be.

 

The switch panel on the other hand, very frustrating.

 

Lex, probably only frustrating for irl Hornet Pilots. The rest of us who aren't wanting to create a full Hornet pit appreciate that the panel has a few controls that were on the right.

 

Oh and thanks for your insight.

[Lex Talionis]

Lex, probably only frustrating for irl Hornet Pilots. The rest of us who aren't wanting to create a full Hornet pit appreciate that the panel has a few controls that were on the right.

 

Oh and thanks for your insight.

 

Well, they did silly things like, trade out the trim button for a bleed air knob... !?

 

I mean, ask yourself as a gamer, how often have you needed the bleed air over the trim button ?

 

Make no mistake, it is the throttle i use and i like it very much, and i by no means want to take my job home in the form of creating a sim pit in my living room. It's just a bit silly what switches they chose to keep and which to get rid of. Wish there was an option to get just the throttle levers and not the bastardized switch panel, just my opinion.

 

And thank you for your patience in listening to my silly rants. Hope it helps someone somewhere.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[PhoenixRising]

Thanks for the info Lex.

[CBStu]

The Warthog throttle stop can be modded very easily yourself w/ a small file. Or a piece of 100 grit sandpaper wrapped over the edge of something like a popsicle stick.

AB throttle detent by craig stuard, on Flickr

Just file a 90 deg corner off to form a 45deg chamfer indicated by the 2 green arrows. I did mine in about 4 stages so I didn't go too far. The two allen head screws remove the cover piece between the two levers and the piece in the pic lifts out from the forward end of the slot.

[maxTRX]

That's pretty much what I had in mind more or less. I took it apart after a hint from Lex and the DIY 'bulb' went off... didn't look too complicated. I'll give it a shot over the weekend.

[BuzzU]

A well known way to do it. I prefer to use a Shapesway detent for many reasons.

 

The choice is always yours. Just keep in mind to take off material slowly and constantly check it. Go too far and you can't put it back.

[maxTRX]

A well known way to do it. I prefer to use a Shapesway detent for many reasons.

 

The choice is always yours. Just keep in mind to take off material slowly and constantly check it. Go too far and you can't put it back.

 

Yea, I saved the order page just in case.

[maxTRX]

Q for Lex

 

Speaking of sim hardware...

I'd have to look this thread up. I remember an intense discussion about RW flight control feel and bunch other related and unrelated 'stuff'.

I think it was Lex that mentioned a possibility to design and manufacture a realistic Hornet stick and a throttle?

Unless I'm mixing him up with someone else. Lex, was that you?

[BuzzU]

The WinWing is a good copy of the Hornet stick and throttle.

 

Kind of pricey.

[Drac]

A well known way to do it. I prefer to use a Shapesway detent for many reasons.

 

The choice is always yours. Just keep in mind to take off material slowly and constantly check it. Go too far and you can't put it back.

 

Which material version did you get; natural, processed, or premium?

 

Drac

[BuzzU]

Which material version did you get; natural, processed, or premium?

 

Drac

 

 

I didn't know there were choices. I ordered the one in the link I posted. It's white.

 

What's the difference in the choices offered?

 

 

Edit........I went back to my link and saw the choices. Mine is the cheapest one but I can't imagine it feeling any smoother pushing through it.

Edited October 16, 2020 by BuzzU

[Cigar Bear]

The Shapeways AB detent works VERY VERY well for simulating the real Hornet AB - The finger lifts are ONLY used for starts. period.

[Drac]

I didn't know there were choices. I ordered the one in the link I posted. It's white.

 

What's the difference in the choices offered?

 

 

Edit........I went back to my link and saw the choices. Mine is the cheapest one but I can't imagine it feeling any smoother pushing through it.

 

Roger that, I will go with the cheapest. Was thinking one might be a little smoother push through.

[ekka]

Never seen a hornet go unserviceable for "A/B lockout solenoid nil op" and with the way the it seems pilots use the throttles in flight i doubt you ever would.

Edited October 17, 2020 by ekka
Context This was meant to be a quote reply from a nat ops quote but didn't work

[MustangSally]

Speaking of sim hardware...

I'd have to look this thread up. I remember an intense discussion about RW flight control feel and bunch other related and unrelated 'stuff'.

I think it was Lex that mentioned a possibility to design and manufacture a realistic Hornet stick and a throttle?

Unless I'm mixing him up with someone else. Lex, was that you?

 

Here...https://wwsimstore.com/STORE

[BuzzU]

Are they ever not out of stock?