AI Uses Chaff on Missiles Launched in TWS-Auto Before Missile goes Active Homing

[Hawkeye91]

Not sure if this is intended, or just simplified AI but it is extremely irritating to launch an AIM54 in TWS 40 miles out only to have the missile trashed as soon as the missile leaves the rail because it starts popping chaff due to being clairvoyant. Is there any intention to fix this in the near future?

[Fri13]

Must be under the "new AI" work that is coming.

[captain_dalan]

Must be under the "new AI" work that is coming.

 

Nope, it has always done this:

 

[Hawkeye91]

 

Nope, it has always done this:

 

 

So dumb the AI does that because it spoofs the radar SOO bad now in TWS auto with ghost tracks.

[Fri13]

 

Nope, it has always done this:

 

 

I meant that as new AI is under development, that it likely includes fixes for this that AI can't detect something unnaturally....

[captain_dalan]

 

I meant that as new AI is under development, that it likely includes fixes for this that AI can't detect something unnaturally....

 

Ah, i misunderstood you. Apologies. I do hope they come up with some simplified but at least more believable behavior. Simple scripting would do really.

 

 

So dumb the AI does that because it spoofs the radar SOO bad now in TWS auto with ghost tracks.

 

Yeah, it can be pretty bad. But then again, so is AWG-9. Or at least if SME's are to be believed it was. If only look-up and anti-notching maneuvers would help. However, it often doesn't. And i have no idea why.

[BIGNEWY]

AI will react to missiles fired within 10nm or half the missiles max distance as far as I am aware.

 

thanks

[Wizard1393]

AI will react to missiles fired within 10nm or half the missiles max distance as far as I am aware.

 

thanks

 

Yes, I've heard this mentioned before, however honestly it should be reviewed and changed.

It's an OK solution when SARH/IR missiles are fired. But it is severely needed to change the behavior regarding reaction or ARH missiles.

AI should only react when ARH missile gone Pitbull as this will trigger a RWR launch warning.

[BIGNEWY]

I will mention it to the team, but cannot promise any change.

 

Thank you

[Ironhand]

 

Yes, I've heard this mentioned before, however honestly it should be reviewed and changed.

It's an OK solution when SARH/IR missiles are fired. But it is severely needed to change the behavior regarding reaction or ARH missiles.

AI should only react when ARH missile gone Pitbull AND within half of the Pitbull-range, to conform with the current SARH reaction algorithm.

 

I react to ARH missiles well before they’ve gone pitbull—assuming I’m aware that the enemy is within ARH range. Forcing the AI to wait until the missile goes active would be unfair to the AI. The poor things have enough issues as it is without kneecapping them.

[Wizard1393]

 

I react to ARH missiles well before they’ve gone pitbull—assuming I’m aware that the enemy is within ARH range. Forcing the AI to wait until the missile goes active would be unfair to the AI. The poor things have enough issues as it is without kneecapping them.

 

I'm thinking it must not be common that people are popping chaffs if you can't detect anything locking you (TWS)? I'd agree though that you would activate your ECM Jammer if equipped when in a hostile environment. Maybe thats what you mean by "reacting"? If STT locked thats another story though, that you react to.

[Ironhand]

 

I'm thinking it must not be common that people are popping chaffs if you can't detect anything locking you (TWS)? I'd agree though that you would activate your ECM Jammer if equipped when in a hostile environment. Maybe thats what you mean by "reacting"? If STT locked thats another story though, that you react to.

 

I seldom pop chaff, anyway. About the only time I use it is when I'm caught completely unawares and tossing out everyhting plus the kitchen sink in the hope of staying alive. OTOH, in any mission you should have a pretty good idea of what your adversary is flying and what weapons he is likely to bring to the fight. That being said, if I know that something carrying ARH weapons is likely approaching, you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be maneuvering, etc, long before my Beriosa erupts.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Ironhand
Spelling correction

[captain_dalan]

Guys, i think i know what the mods are saying. The AI will actually defend at what seams to be some limited distance from the plane, but by defending i think they mean actually breaking and notching.

What we are talking however, seams to be chaffing or other CM deployment, which the AI seams to do as soon as we launch. Even at extreme ranges.

[Wizard1393]

Yup. Nice catch @captain_dalan

[Hawkeye91]

Guys, i think i know what the mods are saying. The AI will actually defend at what seams to be some limited distance from the plane, but by defending i think they mean actually breaking and notching.

What we are talking however, seams to be chaffing or other CM deployment, which the AI seams to do as soon as we launch. Even at extreme ranges.

 

Yes this is exactly my issue. In the F14 TWS the AWG9 creates ghost tracks from AI popping chaff the second you fire in TWS. This renders TWS effectively useless against AI. There’s really no point in having TWS existing in the F14 as long as this behavior persists.

[captain_dalan]

 

Yes this is exactly my issue. In the F14 TWS the AWG9 creates ghost tracks from AI popping chaff the second you fire in TWS. This renders TWS effectively useless against AI. There’s really no point in having TWS existing in the F14 as long as this behavior persists.

 

Yeah. Though i haven't researched the AI behavior enough to get a good feel of how much and how often the CM's on their own affect my shots (a good portion of my limited BVR used to be MP), i am starting to think that mad dogging the things at 20NM might actually be a better tactic in the SP missions. I remember the last time i tried playing "Protect the Vicksburg" before it broke, i couldn't hit those 33's for the life of me. I wonder if they repaired that mission. Might give it another go, and see if P-STT ACM-UP works better then PD-STT and TWS :joystick:

 

Yup. Nice catch @captain_dalan

Thanks mate! :thumbup:

[Hawkeye91]

 

Yeah. Though i haven't researched the AI behavior enough to get a good feel of how much and how often the CM's on their own affect my shots (a good portion of my limited BVR used to be MP), i am starting to think that mad dogging the things at 20NM might actually be a better tactic in the SP missions. I remember the last time i tried playing "Protect the Vicksburg" before it broke, i couldn't hit those 33's for the life of me. I wonder if they repaired that mission. Might give it another go, and see if P-STT ACM-UP works better then PD-STT and TWS :joystick:

 

 

Thanks mate! :thumbup:

 

I've never tested solid numbers, but I almost never hold the track once the AI starts chaffing and the TWS will track the chaff and lose the target. I sometimes score hits but I believe its because of the missile going active even though it shouldn't after losing its target due to the API being on ED's side of the things.

[captain_dalan]

 

I've never tested solid numbers, but I almost never hold the track once the AI starts chaffing and the TWS will track the chaff and lose the target. I sometimes score hits but I believe its because of the missile going active even though it shouldn't after losing its target due to the API being on ED's side of the things.

 

Are you trying to stay in look-up for as long as possible?

[Hawkeye91]

 

Are you trying to stay in look-up for as long as possible?

 

Yes, I almost always stay a few thousand feet below the tracks.

[captain_dalan]

 

Yes, I almost always stay a few thousand feet below the tracks.

 

Hmm, weird..... we should investigate further.....