Combat Strategy F-15C

[N46em]

Hello! I am new to DCS and I just got the F-15C. I've been doing a tutorial that somebody in a different form recommended, and so far it has been going well. However, I am starting to run into some problems. One of the missions in the tutorial has two Mig-25s and a few SAM stations attack me and I don't have any weapons. I have to avoid the attacks and get past the area where I am in danger. I've done this mission a lot and I have never come close. This is what I've been doing:

 

I wait until I detect an aircraft approaching and then I turn on my ECM. When I detect a missile launch, I find the missile, turn so that it is about at my 3o'clock, start a shallow dive, wait until it gets closer, and then I make a high G turn while dispensing chaff/flares. It typically works once or twice, but then I always get hit. Is there a different strategy that would work better? Thank you!

[Lange_666]

Don't stay up there until they detect you.

What about going low, real low, with your belly scratching the terrain? Use the terrain to hide and to stay out of sight.

[draconus]

Wait, you're doing the tutorial or you fly some tutorial mission? Link?

Flying into the SAM and interceptors WEZ without weapons - that's pretty far from usual Eagle tactics and mission if you ask me, so don't sweat it - it's just bad design. Not all missions are realistic or even doable. Do you even have the AWACS available to get updates on Foxbats?

Try the opposite - turn off the radar, use RWR for SA and AWACS calls if available. Try low and fast, beam the SAMs and fighters whenever possible, use terrain masking if applicable. Try also very fast high alt pass around the Foxbats just to check if you can.

ECM can deny the enemy radars to lock on you from further away but the fighters' radars will eventually burn through when they get close. ECM make you shine from far away while you want to be stealth. More - ECM will attract any radar missile directed at you making you harder to avoid them. So - ECM - bad idea.

Edited December 11, 2020 by draconus

[N46em]

I've considered going low but the briefing tells me it wants me at 30,000. Of course, it also pretends it doesn't know I'll be attacked... I give it a shot and see how it goes. I lost the link for the tutorial I'm using, but I can try to find it again. I do not have AWACS for the mission since the premise is that I'm doing a ferry flight and get surprised by the 25s. 

 

I didn't know that about ECM! I thought that it kept missiles away, so thanks for letting me know I'm doing that wrong. I don't think a high altitude pass would work because I'm already flying at 30,000 and the 25s were designed to catch aircraft like the SR-71, which were much higher. 

 

Thank you for the advice! I'll try it out today and see how I do.

[draconus]

Ok, with the story behind, it makes more sense. You probably cruise at 30k initially but you should be allowed for whatever action after being attacked, right? Now I want to play

[GGTharos]

7 hours ago, N46em said:

I've considered going low but the briefing tells me it wants me at 30,000. Of course, it also pretends it doesn't know I'll be attacked... I give it a shot and see how it goes. I lost the link for the tutorial I'm using, but I can try to find it again. I do not have AWACS for the mission since the premise is that I'm doing a ferry flight and get surprised by the 25s. 

 

I didn't know that about ECM! I thought that it kept missiles away, so thanks for letting me know I'm doing that wrong. I don't think a high altitude pass would work because I'm already flying at 30,000 and the 25s were designed to catch aircraft like the SR-71, which were much higher. 

 

Thank you for the advice! I'll try it out today and see how I do.

 

How close , high and fast are those 25s when they come after you?   What is the victory condition exactly, do you have to land somewhere?  Is that through the gauntlet of SAMs etc?

There are ways to deal with this, the 'sooner the better'.    If you have fuel tanks, ditch them at the first sign of trouble, put your bandits on 3-9, push a 5deg dive and accelerate MAX AB.  Don't go below 25, level out there and start climbing again as soon as the airspeed is 450 - maintain that or better in your climb.

 

You can also turn tail.  Yes, MiG-25's are fast but they don't accelerate quite as fast as an eagle.  

[=4c=Nikola]

Don't go low with eagle ever. It's low speed, low range, low SA situation you do not want to be in.

 

With long shooting platforms like MiG-25 and F-14 you really need to play long game. I do not really play against AI but I would assume they've launched long range and I would start applying defensive solutions at long range.

 

If you supply the mission we can try it.

Edited December 11, 2020 by 4cNikola

[N46em]

I finally beat it!!!! I climbed to 30,000 and started a steep descent when the 25s arrived. I left my ECM off and flew fast and low to the ground. I was able to prevent them from locking on to me for most of it and the few times that they did get a missile off I did a high G turn while dispensing chaff. I had one zip so close behind me that it probably missed by less than a second . Thanks for the advice, it definitely helped! 

 

2 hours ago, 4cNikola said:

Don't go low with eagle ever. It's low speed, low range, low SA situation you do not want to be in.

 

With long shooting platforms like MiG-25 and F-14 you really need to play long game. I do not really play against AI but I would assume they've launched long range and I would start applying defensive solutions at long range.

 

If you supply the mission we can try it.

 

Why shouldn't I go low? It seemed to work really well. Is that not something they would do in real life? 

 

I found the post with the tutorial I've been using. This specific mission is #9. If you fly it, keep in mind that I've only had DCS for a few days .

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313014/

[GGTharos]

It's not that you shouldn't fly low - the issue is that if you have high-speed aircraft coming after you, they will be able to go faster up high and they're always able to catch up to you.

 

So, going low can help or ... not, depending on your opponent.

[N46em]

Okay, that makes sense! Sorry, one last question... If the ECM broadcasts my presence to everybody and makes it easier for missiles to hit me, then why/when would I want to use it? Considering that the purpose would be to avoid getting hit with a missile, it seems counterproductive. 

[draconus]

 

[=4c=Nikola]

57 minutes ago, N46em said:

I finally beat it!!!! I climbed to 30,000 and started a steep descent when the 25s arrived. I left my ECM off and flew fast and low to the ground. I was able to prevent them from locking on to me for most of it and the few times that they did get a missile off I did a high G turn while dispensing chaff. I had one zip so close behind me that it probably missed by less than a second . Thanks for the advice, it definitely helped! 

 

Why shouldn't I go low? It seemed to work really well. Is that not something they would do in real life? 

 

I found the post with the tutorial I've been using. This specific mission is #9. If you fly it, keep in mind that I've only had DCS for a few days .

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313014/

 

Nice job! 

You would never take off unarmed with half tank of fuel in such situation irl.

 

I've tried the mission, it's really easy, just fly with mach 2.5 via route at 50k feet and you will arrive to destination in 10min, uneventful. But, you can try to play the mission several times and try different things. There is mountainous area bellow so you can try to sneak through there very low, but it's not the most optimal solution.

 

38 minutes ago, N46em said:

Okay, that makes sense! Sorry, one last question... If the ECM broadcasts my presence to everybody and makes it easier for missiles to hit me, then why/when would I want to use it? Considering that the purpose would be to avoid getting hit with a missile, it seems counterproductive. 

 

You can use ECM in DCS to reduce the range SAM can shoot at you and you can use it to deny TWS shots at high range. Additionally, it can disturb your opponent to sort your group in timely fashion, so they fall behind their timeline and become prey.

[N22YF]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:34 PM, N46em said:

One of the missions in the tutorial has two Mig-25s and a few SAM stations attack me and I don't have any weapons. I have to avoid the attacks and get past the area where I am in danger. I've done this mission a lot and I have never come close. This is what I've been doing:

 

I wait until I detect an aircraft approaching and then I turn on my ECM. When I detect a missile launch, I find the missile, turn so that it is about at my 3o'clock, start a shallow dive, wait until it gets closer, and then I make a high G turn while dispensing chaff/flares. It typically works once or twice, but then I always get hit. Is there a different strategy that would work better? Thank you!

 

Hello sir! That's my mission you're referring to! My intent with creating this mission was for the pilot to simply avoid threats rather than trying to defeat them with countermeasures, but as others have also pointed out to me, that wasn't apparent enough, so I'll try to make that more obvious in the next update to these missions. The point of the defensive aspect of this mission is to get practice with using the RWR to steer well clear of all threats - if you do this, you won't even need to worry about ECM or chaff/flares. Apologies for making this more difficult than it should have been!

I hope you've been enjoying these training missions and that they've been helpful for you - please let me know if you have any feedback or suggestions! There is a discussion thread here:

 

[N46em]

On 1/14/2021 at 3:25 AM, N22YF said:

 

Hello sir! That's my mission you're referring to! My intent with creating this mission was for the pilot to simply avoid threats rather than trying to defeat them with countermeasures, but as others have also pointed out to me, that wasn't apparent enough, so I'll try to make that more obvious in the next update to these missions. The point of the defensive aspect of this mission is to get practice with using the RWR to steer well clear of all threats - if you do this, you won't even need to worry about ECM or chaff/flares. Apologies for making this more difficult than it should have been!

I hope you've been enjoying these training missions and that they've been helpful for you - please let me know if you have any feedback or suggestions! There is a discussion thread here:

 

The tutorial was extremely helpful, and covered almost all of the basics I needed to learn. I enjoyed the challenge of mission 9, even if I didn't do it as intended . Thank you!

[Mike_Romeo]

Well there is also a good F-15 combat guide https://www.mudspike.com/dcs-f-15c-combat-guide-for-beginners/

Edited January 25, 2021 by Mike_Romeo