Patch/Hotfix Dec 23rd 2020 Feedback Thread

[IronMike]

Here is the feedback thread for today's patch. Thank you all for your support!
 

DCS F-14A/B Tomcat by Heatblur Simulations 

• NEW! Added F-14B Campaign “Operation Reforger - The Iron Heel”

• Fixed TWS tracks clashing with datalink in multicrew. 

• Added TGTS size keybinds for RIO. 

• Updated AIM-7 to parity with ED’s AIM-7. 

• Fixed AIM-7 dogfight LTE to 0.7s (was accidentally immediate). 

• Prevent AIM-54 continuing to track target if TWS track was deleted and later re-acquired (new track technically). 

• Fix: ensure that AIM-54 active command is only sent while radar is transmitting. 

• Livery fixes for VF-102 and 103 Hi Vis. 

• Small fixes to A liveries. 

• Added hog to VF-11 droptank on B version. 

• Fixed mirroring issues on Last Ride and Grim Reapers liveries. 

• Fix for engine fire at continued M1.1. 

• Adjusted transonic drag for F-14A.
  
   

 

Known Issue: in mission 5 of the campaign you might get a message "you were too slow" despite fulfilling your task in time. Please disregard. Thank you.

Known Issue: F-14B turnrate is approx. ~0.4G slower, which is an unwated regress, still in the process of being fixed.

[maxsin72]

Was the turning performance fixed with this hotfix? Thanks

[IronMike]

14 minutes ago, maxsin72 said:

Was the turning performance fixed with this hotfix? Thanks

 

Unfortunately no, we need a bit longer for that. We hope it will be in the next regular patch. It will likely be still a tad slower.

[Calinho]

engine fire bug? new trk

 

 

f-14a engine bug.trk

[IronMike]

10 minutes ago, Calinho said:

engine fire bug? new trk

 

 

f-14a engine bug.trk 1.22 MB · 1 download

 

 

Did you see my last reply here, Calinho?
 

 

[Calinho]

2 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

 

Did you see my last reply here, Calinho?
 

 

 

yes, same mission, no combat

[Wizard_03]

Sparrows seem to be working well again. The engine fires so far has not been an issue for me. But I did notice a rather drastic TIT spike in one instance while flying in the transonic, I chopped the throttles and brought them back and that seemed to make it go away. I unfortunately didn't save the track, but It took place after a BVR engagement in SP where I was flying sustained supersonic above 30K for a few minutes with no issue.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Wizard_03

[IronMike]

Just now, Calinho said:

 

yes, same mission, no combat

 

Thank you. Do you have any mods enabled/ installed?

I'm just asking, thinking what could be the difference between your setup and my setup.

[Calinho]

1 minute ago, IronMike said:

 

Thank you. Do you have any mods enabled/ installed?

I'm just asking, thinking what could be the difference between your setup and my setup.

 

I just have skins and F-5E cockpit mod

 

[IronMike]

Thank you both Wizard and Calinho. Bit gobsmacked why this shnite is still happening... Are you getting a TIT spike before the  fire?

I stonewalled the throttle for minutes on end pushing the transonic and never got a single spike, and also no fire.


Could you do me one last favor please, Calinho? Could you try the same, with the same payload and fuel weight in the Caucasus map?

[Skysurfer]

41 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

Unfortunately no, we need a bit longer for that. We hope it will be in the next regular patch. It will likely be still a tad slower.

 

Makes one wonder what went wrong along the line since it was mostly spot on and within 5% of charted numbers for the longest time? I guess the saying if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it applies here too.  Glad it's being fixed though.

[IronMike]

7 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

Makes one wonder what went wrong along the line since it was mostly spot on and within 5% of charted numbers for the longest time? I guess the saying if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it applies here too.  Glad it's being fixed though.

 

 

It's a bit more complicated than that. We didn't try to fix anything with the B's turnrate. Other areas affect it atm, which was both unforeseen and unwanted. When you run 30k calculations and dozens of thousands of line of code, which all affect each other, it's not as clear cut. I know you all mean well, but you also please need to trust in the fact that our guys know full well what they are doing. Exceptionally well. When you work to an overall goal, regresses are sometimes just part of the deal, and we both unfortunately have to live with them. Trust us, we'd like to avoid them as much as you would not want to experience them. But sometimes they happen and then you need to find new solutions to make 2 things work together again, as they did before one of the two got adjusted to xy, to put it simply.

[Skysurfer]

I can only imagine, thanks for the response.  I'm just looking at it from the point of a "consumer", if you will, and having to deal with something that broke but worked before for several months. No accusations or ill will meant here obviously, you guys are doing a phenomenal job as always, I just think issues and concerns should always be openly addressed and the devs made fully aware of them. Speeds things up in the long run.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Skysurfer

[IronMike]

Of course, which is why we run threads like this.

I know it is difficult to understand for you guys sometimes, I mean how could you. I sit at the source, and sometimes don't understand half of it. Let alone someone who isn't involved in the development process or has no experience with coding or particular experience in aeronautical engineering and coding FMs and then even a step further, experience in coding FMs in DCS, etc... And then, even for our coders things can get so complicated sometimes, that you have to first find a solution how to even understand the problem. For example for 2 years now we've been developing an internal test system for the flight model. (Maybe even 3 years, it has been that long I cannot even remember anymore.) For the past half year we have been working together with a very helpful community member to develop yet another script so we can test and tune turn rate better. 6 months to only be able to say: ok, we're really off by that much and need to tune this. Meaning in short: you sometimes have to go as far as to write a program to fix something, or debug it, or understand it. The flight model is an incredibly delicate balance of a myriad of things, too many to list, but pitch with power, change power just that much, guess what happens. But you often then just cannot go and change pitch, cause that will throw something else out of whack again, and it is also not how it works really. I can only imagine how crazy Fat Creason must be going sometimes to not only hit the right numbers, but to also get a thumbs up from our SMEs regarding feel and overall behavior. To me, it borders on magic what these guys are doing lol.

 

[Uxi]

Curious if Stable is showing the turn rate issue.  Is F-14A on stable yet?

[Calinho]

49 minutes ago, IronMike said:

Thank you both Wizard and Calinho. Bit gobsmacked why this shnite is still happening... Are you getting a TIT spike before the  fire?

I stonewalled the throttle for minutes on end pushing the transonic and never got a single spike, and also no fire.


Could you do me one last favor please, Calinho? Could you try the same, with the same payload and fuel weight in the Caucasus map?

 

yep, TIT spiked before fire.  I tested caucasus free flight 5 times, dropped all loadout, no fire. Managed to break mach 1.0, after unloading to 30k feet and back to 35k feet, passed mach 1.4

Edited December 23, 2020 by Calinho

[Northstar98]

12 minutes ago, Uxi said:

Curious if Stable is showing the turn rate issue.  Is F-14A on stable yet?

 

Probably not (IIRC before I switched to OB) and nor is the F-14A

[Kula66]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

 

Unfortunately no, we need a bit longer for that. We hope it will be in the next regular patch. It will likely be still a tad slower.

That's really disappointing ... can you explain what you meant by 'a tad slower'?

 

[IronMike]

29 minutes ago, Calinho said:

 

yep, TIT spiked before fire.  I tested caucasus free flight 5 times, dropped all loadout, no fire. Managed to break mach 1.0, after unloading to 30k feet and back to 35k feet, passed mach 1.4

 

 

Thank you so much for doing these tests. I have a suspicion it might be related to the temp settings in Syria, not sure if they fixed it, but by the time I did the missions, the only selectable temp was 0° C. I wonder if it is connected to that.

 

14 minutes ago, Kula66 said:

That's really disappointing ... can you explain what you meant by 'a tad slower'?

 

 

If nothing chaned, which is likely, it will be around .3 to .4G slower during a sustained turn.

[Wizard_03]

8 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

Thank you so much for doing these tests. I have a suspicion it might be related to the temp settings in Syria, not sure if they fixed it, but by the time I did the missions, the only selectable temp was 0° C. I wonder if it is connected to that.

 

My spike happened on the NV map during summer FWIW. But either way, good work, this fix is a huge step in the right direction. I can actually go fast in the A now!

[Uxi]

12 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

If nothing chaned, which is likely, it will be around .3 to .4G slower during a sustained turn.

 

So it turned too good before? 

[IronMike]

47 minutes ago, Calinho said:

 

yep, TIT spiked before fire.  I tested caucasus free flight 5 times, dropped all loadout, no fire. Managed to break mach 1.0, after unloading to 30k feet and back to 35k feet, passed mach 1.4

 

 

 

Would you mind trying it one more time in the PG map, if you have it, please, and set the temp at 0°? I would appreciate it a lot, thank you.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

My spike happened on the NV map during summer FWIW. But either way, good work, this fix is a huge step in the right direction. I can actually go fast in the A now!

 

NV map = NTTR?

[Wizard_03]

Just now, IronMike said:

NV map = NTTR?

Yes sorry.

[IronMike]

14 minutes ago, Uxi said:

 

So it turned too good before? 

 

No, it turned just right. The current reduction in turn rate is an unwanted regress. I think this isn't quite clear to some.

 

PS: not meant to shout at you, btw, I hope it didnt look like that, just accentuated it so it doesn't get missed.

[IronMike]

24 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Yes sorry.

 

Could you check the OAT you had at the time it happend and see if it happens again with the same OAT (and tell me the OAT pls)? And if you don't mind, try the same temp/loadout etc in Caucasus. Thanks!

 

OAT = temperature, to be more precise, simply the temp in your mission setting.