Quest 2 versus Reverb G2 : My experience

[Brainfreeze]

Edited: gave a second chance to the Quest 2 with settings tweaked for super sampling (1.7x) and 30hz forced refresh...modified my comments below accordingly

 

I happen to own both the Reverb G2 and the Quest 2 + link (we will call this lockdown boredom lapse ), so thought I give you my view so far.  For disclosure, had the G2 for a few months and the Quest 2 for a day at time of initial writing.

 

Headset quality:  I have to say the G2 is much better for me in terms of comfort.  I have the standard head strap for the Quest and frankly it is rubbish. Also the foam is much harder than on the G2 and the area around the nose is not as comfortable and does not fit like on the G2 (light comes through, you can see your lap through the gap. I can spend hours with the G2 on but don't think I would with the Quest 2.  Maybe the elite strap helps overall but it is £50 additional... added to the £90 for the oculus link it is a £440 headset now.

 

Graphics:  G2 is also miles better. When I put the Quest 2 on I thought...oh that seems nice.   It look smoother and softer than on the G2. Don't know why given exact same settings but colours are different and grass seems more blended for some reason. With the 1.7 SS the cockpit dials are perfectly crisp and readable. Not as good as G2 but very far from it at all. Then I noticed that spotting planes was actually much much harder and I also noticed that my FPS was lower than with the G2.  Might be some setting fine-tuning thingy.   I put the G2 back and then I was 'whaow!' graphics are a lot crisper and spotting is dead easy.  Made me love my G2 all the more. Also think anyone who want to dogfight or spot targets from afar will want a G2.  The Quest lens is closer to my eyes than in the G2 which means eyelashes sometime touch it.   The sweet spot is definitely smaller on the G2 than the Quest. It does bother some but not me.  Super crisp where you look and good enough just around it really.

 

Sound:  G2 very superior there. The quest does not shine by its sound but the G2 does.

 

Performance: In order to have crisp dials in cockpit I need to supersample the Quest 2 but not the G2 so actual frame rate is better in the G2 at the end of the day. To be honest, it is no big deal as both achieve very smooth graphics on my system. I do have occasional stutter on the Quest though.  like every 30sec or 1min I get a quick stutter affecting video and sound.  Been there all along and have no idea what's causing it.  

 

Overall:  Quest 2 worth the price (with add-on) really and certainly a perfectly good headsest to enjoy DCS.  G2 is superior in my view, with better comfort, slightly better graphics and much better sound.  

 

feedback welcome.  

On the Quest2 I launch oculus, enable link then launch DCS direct.  For G2, WMR then DCS direct (which triggers SteamVR) 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Brainfreeze
Updated views

[Edmondz]

Hi Brainfreeze,

Thanks first: this subject is exactly what I was looking for. I just bought my first headset, the Quest 2 and felt the waow effect inside of my plane, what an experience!

 

Since it’s wired through an USB-C cable I was leaning toward the G2 (connected by DisplayPort), which I’ve ordered, but will have to wait a few weeks before it gets available from HP.

 

I’ve read somewhere that the controllers were not so good, do you use them to manipulate the plane’s controls?

[Brainfreeze]

Nope I do not use the controllers (don't have them for the G2 actually).  Planes controls are all on hotas (virpil Alpha + throttle) + directly clicking on cockpit in VR.   I love that in vr, it is much more immersive because you can just click everything easily and with the G2 everything is really clear in the cockpit.

 

BTW when you get your G2... use the alignment tool (below) ... need to swap top and bottom values and generally also make both sides symmetrical.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Brainfreeze

[streakeagle]

I have the Rift CV1, Rift S, Quest 2, and Reverb G2. The Rift S was a big step up from the CV1 and I enjoyed using it for quite some time. Then the G2 arrived. I didn't think I would be able to enjoy the G2 until I built a new PC and got a 3080 RTX or 6800XT, but I was wrong. I get the same or better frame rates on the G2 as I did with the Rift S (generally 5 more fps since the reprojection rate for the G2 is 45 vs the Rift S 40) and have tremendously better graphics in resolution, clarity, and colors. Going back to the Rift S is painful after seeing how well things can look in the G2. I will say that I think the Rift S had better and/or more stable tracking, but the image quality difference is so game-changing that I can live with the problems the G2 brings with it such as having to run both Windows Mixed Reality and SteamVR to play DCS.

 

I just got my son a Quest 2 for Christmas and got the link cable, too. So, of course I tried it out with DCS World. It may be better than the Rift S, but I didn't do side by side testing to compare. All I know is that the G2 still looks so much better that the Quest 2 for DCS is a no-go for me. Its not that the Quest 2 is bad, its just nowhere near as good as the G2. I haven't tried the Valve Index or the Pimax, but the resolution, image quality, and performance of the G2 is so good that I don't how they could be any better overall.

 

Of course, the Quest 2 is really a different animal. Its main function is to allow a wireless room-scale VR experience. It does that very well. It also looks great when running natively programmed and installed applications as opposed to emulating a rift with compressed image data arriving over bandwidth limited copper wire. My son enjoyed the Darth Vader Immortal series and I like the Angry Birds implementation as well as the default Robo Recall. At a lower price (not as low if you get the factory link cable and the factory case), you get more capability than the G2 at the cost of image quality/performance in DCS World. If you aren't a dedicated DCS World nut like me and love VR gaming as whole, the Quest 2 is probably a better option. Of course, if you have the money, you can always get both.

[Dangerzone]

Thanks very much for the review - which I found to be quite encouraging.

 

For me - I can't bring myself to purchase a product from a company that has ever changing terms & condition strings attached that can revoke your account (and with that your devices as well) anytime in the future because you step outside of their standards somewhere down the track (and already has from reports I've read), so I want to continue to support companies that provide a 'no strings attached' product - regardless of whether it's not quite as good or not as the other.

 

So with that, it's encouraging to read that I don't need to compromise - and that the G2 is the better choice anyway for my needs.

[dburne]

9 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Thanks very much for the review - which I found to be quite encouraging.

 

For me - I can't bring myself to purchase a product from a company that has ever changing terms & condition strings attached that can revoke your account (and with that your devices as well) anytime in the future because you step outside of their standards somewhere down the track (and already has from reports I've read), so I want to continue to support companies that provide a 'no strings attached' product - regardless of whether it's not quite as good or not as the other.

 

So with that, it's encouraging to read that I don't need to compromise - and that the G2 is the better choice anyway for my needs.

 

Yeah I am with you there - I was a big Oculus fan and supporter up until they made Facebook a requirement to use their new device.

Got a Reverb G2 and have not looked back. Obviously with the low cost of entry the Quest 2 is seeing some popularity even for PC-VR, and anything that helps grow the VR industry is a good thing I guess.

It is just too bad Oculus walked away from a native PC-VR device. Seems to me they could have continued offering both.

Edited January 10, 2021 by dburne

[Flyingfish]

This is really interesting. I've got a rift s and want to upgrade so I was considering the quest 2 but it seems from the above comments that the G2 looks better and gives better performance. Trouble is there aren't any G2's available!

 

[Brainfreeze]

19 minutes ago, Flyingfish said:

This is really interesting. I've got a rift s and want to upgrade so I was considering the quest 2 but it seems from the above comments that the G2 looks better and gives better performance. Trouble is there aren't any G2's available!

 

Hehe indeed.   And there is a good reason for that(actually more than one) 

[AlpineGTA]

Good summary, thanks.

 

I've got a Quest 2 and I've been really happy with the improvement over my previous Rift S. The clarity and lack of screen door is so much better over the Rift S. I can read most dials, text, gauges and MFDs in most cockpits without having to lean in or use VR zoom. The untethered stand alone part is also brilliant if you fancy a break from DCS and just want to enjoy a bit of quick VR gaming fun, without having to power up your PC. You  just whip the headset on and bang, you're there! It really is great. The double tap the side of the headset to look through the pass through cameras and quickly see where you are is a great feature too. I use it often when I want to quickly jump out of my HOTAS chair and walk through to the back of my Mi-8, C-130 or business jet in MSFS2020 to enjoy a bit of chill time watching the scenery fly by.  The finger tracking is very handy too (no pun intended!), I use it all the time to do things like quickly enable the Link cable without having to reach for a controller. The controllers too, from what I've heard, are better, less bulky and more comfortable than the G2 controllers and the batteries last an age. But...

 

I've just ordered a G2. I'm intrigued by people, such as yourself, saying the clarity is even better than the Quest 2, which itself, I thought, was a bit of a "wow" improvement over the Rift S, so I'll be interested to see for myself. I also hate the fact that my Quest 2 is linked to my Facebook account. This is another issue entirely, but I'm pretty sick of all social media at the moment, I've been using FB less and less over the past few months and I really want to leave it completely but I'm prevented from doing so at the moment because it'll brick my Quest.

 

So, I'll be sorry to lose some of the cool features of the Quest 2 but I'm looking forward to the social media freedom, the (hopefully) even better visuals, better comfort of the head strap (the Quest 2s is crap) and most importantly, the hours, days and weeks of constant tinkering getting the settings just right on yet another headset! 

 

I'll decide after I have everything set up whether to keep my Quest 2 or not. Maybe I'll just deactivate my FB and keep it as a backup. Hopefully another non Oculus headset will be along soon with the comfort and clarity of the G2 but also the cool features of the Quest 2. The DecaGear could be very promising but who knows whether that will really come to fruition or is just pie in the sky... 

[Brainfreeze]

Hey AlpineGTA,

so when you get your G2 check out what Pride37 and dburne summed up in this thread  

Setup is more involved with G2 but once done it is great.  Happy to help you with overall settings if you find yourself into a bind.   Important to know is that DCS deals badly with the G2 cross eye alignment and so, for comfort, check out BigNewy's cross eye alignment tool in the forum... swap top and bottom and maybe make left and right symmetrical.  After that it is all about finding the right shaders to use for best visual enjoyment.  One thing I cannot do properly with Quest 2 is spotting planes and it is a breeze with the G2... that is a very important part of flying DCS and numerous posts in here complain about the spotting side of DCS.

[AlpineGTA]

Thanks for the info. It'll save me a bit of trawling the forum for all the setup tips.

 

Yes, the plane spotting is one thing I'm interested in comparing because I don't really have a problem with that in the Quest 2. I don't use labels and have gotten quite good at spotting and keeping track of planes in dogfights. So if the G2 is even better that should be pretty cool.

[Brainfreeze]

I’d be interested in your settings for the quest 2 then...wondering if i could improve mine (have not looked too much as I reverted quickly to G2

[AlpineGTA]

I'm not at home at the moment but I can check later and post some settings. 

 

It may just be that I'm seeing the same as you and what you would consider terrible but I'm just acclimatised to it because I don't know any better.

 

I don't have a top spec either, I'm only running an old i7 and an AMD 5700 XT, but I do have 32gig of RAM. I play only single player too and I'm quite tolerant of low fps. I'm comfortable with as little as 25fps, as long as it's smooth and I'm not getting any stuttering I don't really obsess over what my fps is. 

[Brainfreeze]

1 hour ago, AlpineGTA said:

I'm comfortable with as little as 25fps, as long as it's smooth and I'm not getting any stuttering I don't really obsess over what my fps is. 

Am with you there. Fps doesn't really matter as long as it stays smooth

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Brainfreeze said:

Am with you there. Fps doesn't really matter as long as it stays smooth

 

[AlpineGTA]

These are my VR settings for my Quest 2: 

 

 

 

Sorry for the slightly wonky DCS screenshots, I couldn't be bothered restarting in flat mode! 

 

As a benchmark, with these settings in the F-16 instant action free flight mission over the Persian Gulf (I find the F-16 to be one of the most taxing modules), I'm getting 25fps, low over Dubai:

 

and 40fps high over the sea:

The initial spawn in is horrible and jerky but it settles down after a few seconds.

 

Another benchmark - In the M-2000C instant action "guns guns guns' mission in the Caucasus I'm getting 39fps on the initial spawn in. And this is with all the cockpit lighting turned up to the max as the Mirage has a dark cockpit. Some say having cockpit lights on can impact fps, I don't know to what extent that it true but it sounds probable. You can see the bandit in the HUD just above the gunsight and just to the left of the 31 heading indication. It's a lot easier to see inside the headset:

Around 30fps during the dogfight. As I say, I have no trouble spotting and tracking planes but maybe I'm just accustomed to it. The bandit is the black dot just above the HUD glass and slightly left of centre. Again, it's much easier to see inside the headset. Much easier to see in the second picture, but I am much closer:

 

Also, my system specs: i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz, AMD 5700 XT, 32.0 GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB Samsung SSD

 

I don't use Oculus Tray Tool with DCS. I've tried it but I don't find it gives me any performance benefits. Also, after starting DCS up I Alt+Tab to the Oculus software and press Ctrl+Numberpad key 2 to force 45hz, ASW off. Otherwise I find it does jerk and stutter a bit. An easy way to check I have 45hz and ASW off is a quick press of F3, if the plane ghosts and stutters during the fly-by it's not off. If it flies by smoothly then it is ASW off. I also notice stutters when I move my head around the cockpit if it's not off.

 

Obviously this is what works for me with my hardware, it might be different for others.

 

And by the way, I did win that dogfight but somehow still managed to end up floating in my parachute next to my foe in his parachute, whilst a pilot-less Mirage flew in circles around us in full afterburner! Don't ask... 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by AlpineGTA

[Brainfreeze]

This AlpineGTA ... will try this and report back.  BTW... to save me time...how do you take your screenshots (key presses) and what do u use to display fps (I just have the Nvidia overlay but not gr8 and not showing in VR headset)?

Thks

[AlpineGTA]

I just use the keyboard shortcut: 'Windows key+Print Screen' to take screenshots and then paste them into the default Windows Paint program to crop and save them as jpegs. Quick and easy. Tricky to do in the middle of a dogfight though! 

 

For displaying the FPS I use the built in DCS 'Ctrl+Pause Break' keys command. Using external software might be more accurate but it's only for comparison purposes whilst playing with settings.

 

Btw, the third screenshot - VR Options, I've also tried with Shadows set to Low and Anisotropic Filtering set to x8 but haven't noticed much difference in FPS. I also have Civ. traffic on medium and some chimney smoke enabled. Turning these off probably gives a bit more FPS but I like my world to look a bit alive and lived in. Everything depends so much on what module you're flying, what map you're on, how low you're flying, what city/terrain you're over, how many other assets/aircraft are moving and flying around, the same settings can give varying FPS.

 

A real test is the BF 109 instant action bomber intercept mission on the Channel map. Try and get good FPS on that. When I roll in to attack the bombers on that mission it turns into a 10 FPS slide show.

 

I am planning on upgrading my CPU and GPU for the G2 when GPUs are back in stock again at normal prices.

Edited January 15, 2021 by AlpineGTA

[Brainfreeze]

hehe...thks for these tips...did not know about the nifty Ctrl+Pause   

Ok tried again with M2000 guns guns guns... right I can see/spot like you.  I get 40-80fps.  Not sure where to turn ASW off so left as is.

funny that in oculus link graphic prefs my slider's max reads 1.5x but is at the same resolution than yours...anyways.

I think you will enjoy the G2 ... u gonna be king of spotting.  Seriously it is much sharper on the G2. (BTW I have visib range at extreme).

Also I find the G2 is much more comfortable.  The Quest2 (stock strap) hurts on the forehead I find.

[AlpineGTA]

Well, I've received an email to say my G2 has been delivered so I'm looking forward to getting home and playing around with that tonight. It was very quick, I only ordered it on Wednesday evening and wasn't expecting it until next week at the earliest!

 

Interesting, I'll try my visible range at extreme and see if I notice a difference in spotting. It seems like you're getting good FPS anyway. I'm guessing you've got a stronger GPU than me.

 

Btw, to turn ASW off just Alt+Tab so that your Oculus software is the window of focus on your desktop, press keys Ctrl+KeypadNmb2, then Alt+Tab back to your DCS Window.

[Brainfreeze]

@AlpineGTA So what's the verdict so far?  Still struggling with setup?  

[Hoirtel]

At the risk of going against the majority in this post I feel I should post my experience. As a long term Rift S (1.5 SS) I got a reverb G2 with hope for that high quality visuals. Yes the screen is sharp, very crisp and monitor like. However I must have the face shape or something to not get this across my entire view as I found that the image degraded from the immediate centre so badly, it almost had the effect of an FOV reduction - this was in all apps not just DCS. When compared this with my rift S then I do not get this feeling however the rift s certainly doesn't have edge to edge clarity, possibly just a much more gradual decline. I also did get the G2 running but even on my top end system 80% was all it would do and I really just preferred to use my 1.5 ss'd rift S which I get really high fps with very high settings. So the natural option was for me to try a quest 2, and I'm glad I did. With the settings cranked I get a sharper rift s experience with no/very little screen door. fps is lower than rift of course but I am supersampling still and I have room for MSAA to control the jaggies. With MSAA at x4 all the jaggies are gone which is really quite something. This just isn't possible on the rift s due to its lower res screen and I also found the jaggies very visible on what ever settings I tried (100%, 2x MSAA etc) The image in Q2 isn't as sharp or crisp as the centre of the G2, but I find it much more consistent. The colours also aren't as good. However in my opinion Oculus is just more versatile, the reprojection is miles better as the frame rates can drop to well below reprojection level and its bearable (unlike G2). I get great fps and visuals on my high end system (3090) but I do feel that the same could be had easier if it was a normal displayport rather than link cable, but that's the way it is. I'm a happy G2 to Q2 owner, its not perfect but I got closer to what I wanted than with the G2.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Hoirtel

[Brainfreeze]

One size fits all doesn't exist nor should it!   Sweet spot on G2 is clearly smaller than on oculus . This is well documented and can be a deal breaker for some.  Why you are not getting a silky smooth motion at 100% with your gear is beyond me though.  I have only a 3080 and have no issue at all (I am now using WMR for steam VR reprojection) I get 90fps and 45 steady when the gear cannot get 90fps. Even without this I only had stutters at the very beginning before I started looking at settings properly. Anyway, if sweet spot bothers you more then it does not matter anyway     

[Hoirtel]

38 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said:

One size fits all doesn't exist nor should it!   Sweet spot on G2 is clearly smaller than on oculus . This is well documented and can be a deal breaker for some.  Why you are not getting a silky smooth motion at 100% with your gear is beyond me though.  I have only a 3080 and have no issue at all (I am now using WMR for steam VR reprojection) I get 90fps and 45 steady when the gear cannot get 90fps. Even without this I only had stutters at the very beginning before I started looking at settings properly. Anyway, if sweet spot bothers you more then it does not matter anyway     

 I can have it running smooth at 100% or even 150%, the difference being how and where I do my tests. This has been discussed in BN's G2 thread. His testing is done in a 1:1 air start dogfight over caucauses. This just isn't appropriate for me. My test is a hot f18 runway start at Nellis, with statics on the ground (quite a few) and then do low flying over the city. This is a fairly demanding scenario but allows me to test under some stress, but as I always like to do ground starts from airfields with a few statics - its no good if not smooth then. I typically don't test with lots of AI as I know these bog down the CPU. I also test sitting on the deck of the SC and passing it at 800ft as this is important for me to have smooth. I also do a test low flying over Beirut although I dont actually expect that to be smooth. I don't really so this in normal gaming, its more just so I understand my parameters better. If you only ever start and stop in the air, and mostly fly at high altitudes, you can really get some high settings in VR. I think they way in which people use the game, rather than their combination of settings is the really big difference to what people's experiences are, and so it should DCS is a sandbox and people will use it differently. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Hoirtel

[Brainfreeze]

Haha. Think everyone flies from crowded airfields and above cities. If they don't they will.