Did ED tweak the R-77 like they did with the AIM-120?

[MobiSev]

Title.

[Northstar98]

In terms of FDM, there might've been small tweaks, but absolutely not to the same extent as the AIM-120 - its still waiting a rework.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Northstar98

[GGTharos]

4 minutes ago, MobiSev said:

Title.

 

No.   The AIM-120 and AIM-7 (and maybe AIM-9?) got a completely new FM - ie the underlying code and flight model are completely different.  As well, those missiles received a CFD treatment to determine their coefficients of drag and lift.  It also comes with a new autopilot and other fun stuff (tm).

 

The R-27 and 77 will get that treatment later.   For now, they have had their drag and lift tweaked in the current FM to make them fly much better than they used to, so aside from academic differences, they are on a similar performance level as the missiles with the new FM.

[MobiSev]

Just now, GGTharos said:

 

No.   The AIM-120 and AIM-7 (and maybe AIM-9?) got a completely new FM - ie the underlying code and flight model are completely different.  As well, those missiles received a CFD treatment to determine their coefficients of drag and lift.  It also comes with a new autopilot and other fun stuff (tm).

 

The R-27 and 77 will get that treatment later.   For now, they have had their drag and lift tweaked in the current FM to make them fly much better than they used to, so aside from academic differences, they are on a similar performance level as the missiles with the new FM.

 

awesome, thanks for the response!

[Mike_Romeo]

Yes, they did tweak the R-77 a little bit but they still want to completly rework them like they did with the Aim-120

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[Glide]

19 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

No.   The AIM-120 and AIM-7 (and maybe AIM-9?) got a completely new FM - ie the underlying code and flight model are completely different.  As well, those missiles received a CFD treatment to determine their coefficients of drag and lift.  It also comes with a new autopilot and other fun stuff (tm).

 

The R-27 and 77 will get that treatment later.   For now, they have had their drag and lift tweaked in the current FM to make them fly much better than they used to, so aside from academic differences, they are on a similar performance level as the missiles with the new FM.

The Sidewinder behavior has been evolving nicely, IMHO.  They lose tracking with the sun low in the sky, and they pick up friendlies that cross their path.  I've been down twice by them over the last month.  They are way more fun now.

[Max1mus]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:25 PM, GGTharos said:

they are on a similar performance level as the missiles with the new FM.

Only R-77, and its missing the loft, which is yet to be added. R-27 did not improve much at all. It performs exactly the same on a nonmaneuvering bandit, and it only performs slightly better on a maneuvering target, the only major difference is performance close to minimum range (2-3km) where they can turn much better now.

The other limiting factor of R-27 is the supporting radar, so no matter what treatment it gets from ED, any redfor aircraft (including AI) in DCS carries the old 80s N001 which will do things like breaking lock on a split-Sing bandit at 25km, or loosing lock when flying inverted.

In short, for R-27 to become significantly more threatening, you will have to wait for:
- ED reworking the FM
- ED adding more modern Flanker/Fulcrum variants

Both of which is unlikely to happen until in a few years.

If you like fighting as or against Russian 4th gen aviation, i recommend that you drop DCS. It will only get worse.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Max1mus

[bies]

13 hours ago, Max1mus said:

If you like fighting as or against Russian 4th gen aviation, i recommend that you drop DCS. It will only get worse.

 

I like flying as Soviet 4th generation aviation and i love it. They are from 1980s (like whole DCS environment originating from FC3) and in this timeframe servers and missions they are beasts and super fun to play with dogfighting still a thing, fighting in close air combat with guns and heatseakers with only rudimentary and limited SAHR BVR R-27/Sparrow.

 

A LOT more interesting than 2000s AMRAAM/AMRAAMski trucks: shoot to some blip on radar and run, not even seeing the enemy.

 

Is my Spitfire useless because there is 2004 Hornet in the game? Hell no. But i won't take my Spitfire, MiG-21bis or even Su-27 on 2000s AMRAAM/datalink server.

 

Oh, and with full fidelity MiG-29 9.12 it's going to get even better.

Edited February 6, 2021 by bies

[Max1mus]

5 hours ago, bies said:

Oh, and with full fidelity MiG-29 9.12 it's going to get even better.

 

Ah yes, a full fidelity export 80s MiG with no GCI Datalink (because ED does not have the info to make it) and with unfinished features for 2 years.

 

The MiG-29 9.12 is in the game already. Try to have any fun with it:

 

The 80s servers are dead, there are no 90s servers that restrict hornet/F-16 datalink and weapons. 

 

No proper singleplayer campaigns focusing on its role as a point defense fighter - DCS GCI is designed for western aircraft and will not micro-manage you like a soviet GCI would have.

 

If you want to get shot down by Eurofighters and late 2000s F-16s, go right ahead and spend 80$ on a 9.12 (That is already in DCS).

 

But my faith in humanity makes me believe that reasonable people will not.

[bies]

4 hours ago, Max1mus said:

The 80s servers are dead, there are no 90s servers that restrict hornet/F-16 datalink and weapons. 

 

This is simply not true, there is sufficient traffic on both the Cold War and 1980s servers wchich are my favourite, and with the release of more Cold War planes, it will be A LOT bigger.

 

Being developed A-7E Corsair, Mirage F.1, MiG-29A, F-14A, Mi-24P, F-8J Crusader, A-6E Intruder, English Electric Lighting, MiG-23MLA or current MiG-21bis, L-39, Mirage 2000, C-101, AJS-37 Viggen, MiG-19 - all of them are useless and absolutely no suitable for 2000s scenarios, but all are perfect for Cold War.

 

So what, all this modules are useless but Viper, Hornet and Warthog are the only which are vaiable?

 

Psst, i can tell you some secret: supercruising Eurofighter with Meteor missile with NOZ about 3 times bigger than AIM-120C-5 will absolutely wipe the floor with a Viper and Hornet, it is going to be a seal clubbing like AMRAAM vs Sidewinder. Literally. Does it mean all the modules except Eurofighter will be useless and waste of time?

Give me a break, it's ridiculous. 

 

Personally i will take 1980s guns and heatseakers close in dogfighting with F-14, MiG-29, F-15, Su-27 etc. any time over AMRAAM fire to blip on the radar and run. MiG-29 9.12 is perfect choice with big demand.

Edited February 6, 2021 by bies