about the Vikhr

[Flyby]

The Vikhr can take out an Abrams tank. Right? By the way, how do you suppose a Black Shark might attack a heavy brigade? Oh I know. Lots of variables

I wonder how attach helicopters do againt insurgencies. I suppose they are best used as support for ground troops.

 

Attacking a heavy brigade or fighting an insurgency. Either way the Black Shark mission builders will probably have some fun.

 

just whiling the time away.

Flyby out

[GGTharos]

DCS: I think you need 2 vikhrs to take out an M1, at least from the front.

 

Reality: If you keep pounding the front, you can also keep dreaming.

 

A Ka-50 would not attack a heavy brigade - ever. At least, not by its lonesome. It would do so in numbers, and then the damage it would do would probably not be too great (since we're talking a brigade level unit) - of course, circumstances can make things happen.

 

Countering insurgencies/low level conflict is -exactly- what Black Shark is used for.

[159th_Viper]

DCS: I think you need 2 vikhrs to take out an M1, at least from the front.

 

 

Same as Currently in LockOn, then?

 

Two Vikhrs for Heavy Armour, alternatively 1 Vikhr followed up by a short 30mm Burst, or would it be different for Black Shark? Good way to save on Vikhrs that :)

[GGTharos]

Ehm, I don't know about bomb holes etc; you won't likely be making a whole lot of'em with the ka-50 anyway.

 

The ground AI are not modeled with that much detail, but different arcs have different armor; I expended my 30mm AP and HE on a T-80's front hull and it didn't care. Vikhrs and heavy rockets are a different story.

[Groove]

As this thread is about Vikhr`s i moved most of the OT Talk about Tanks ( which had some funny statements btw. ) to a new topic, which you can find here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=30995

[Boberro]

Ehm, I don't know about bomb holes etc; you won't likely be making a whole lot of'em with the ka-50 anyway.

 

:D

 

Ekhm hope there will be in the something like that when it hit target about 1m or 0.5 m from target it damages it, not like now I can hit ground closest as possible target (that even crater is under car oO) and car is still in well condition.

[GGTharos]

It's a Volvo. What do you expect? :D

[Boberro]

Eeh now I know what car buy when I would like tour Caucas ;]

 

Anyway hope it is fixed, isn't it?

[159th_Viper]

Aye - I hope so too.........

 

I always chuckle when a Stinger-man survives a S-25 launch that impacted a coupla feet away........:music_whistling:

[ZoomBoy27]

Aye - I hope so too.........

 

I always chuckle when a Stinger-man survives a S-25 launch that impacted a coupla feet away........:music_whistling:

 

I once placed a Stingerman on top of a building in a mission.

When I destroyed the building, he was still in mid air.

I might have pics

[Flyby]

hey guys,

 

I didn't mean to give the impression of a lone BS attacking a heavy brigade. Not at all. But I was curious about the Vikhr's punch from a mission-making point of view. Since it does not perform a pop-up manuever I wanted to know how much good it would do against an M1.

I guess I sort of wonder how a flight of Ka50s would do in slowing down a heavy brigade. My mission-making interests tend to lean towards going up againt Western equipment, not fighting insurgents in cities, and such. You know me. If I don't ask...;)

Flyby out

[GGTharos]

A 'flight' meaning, four, wouldn't slow it down. ;)

 

In a game, that changes.

[Avimimus]

I always figured the effects of such helicopters would be light attrition and demoralisation (eg. akin to sniper teams) or completing destruction (ie. mopping up after fixed wing SEAD and CAS strikes).

 

I can't really imagine attack helicopters having the battlefield endurance to bog down troops even with a FARP on the battlefield, they just have too much fire-power and too little armour. Of course, at a larger scale, a series of strikes could block up roads with tank hulks etc.

 

Ehm, I don't know about bomb holes etc; you won't likely be making a whole lot of'em with the ka-50 anyway.

 

You underestimate me, sir.

[GGTharos]

I suppose I underestimate your patience ... :D

[Avimimus]

I suppose I underestimate your patience ... :D

 

Or stupidity :D

[Yellonet]

I'd like a neutron bomb to go with my Ka-50 thank you. Then we can deal with those pesky M1s! :D

[GGTharos]

I don't think you'd survive the 120mm volley... :D

[Flyby]

Not being well versed in Russian equipment, I'll take a "wag" and say that perhaps a mission builder might employ a squadron of Su25T (ai) to engage the M1s then send in the Black Shark to take out softer targets. This scenario of course is one where the tanks are caught enroute.

[GGTharos]

This is certainly one option. The other is to use your Ka-50's to flank the enemy armor and hit them on the sides or rear, though you have to be careful as there might be flank screens.

[Flyby]

Copy that. Here's to a robust Mission editor! I imagine having a flank screen is something the mission builder will have to include? I like a tough mission where the outcome is never a sure thing. Why build a mission where you know you're going to win?

[GGTharos]

Yes, this is something a mission builder would do. You could effectively simulate a unit calling for reinforcements with triggers etc, and suddenly a bunch of bradleys might pop up screening the flanks of an M1 unit, for example (or you could have them there to start with - and if you're mean like me and want to make sure the player is exercising due dilligence, you do something like hide a stinger in a nook, or right where he'll want to attack from 'cause hey - did you really think that brigade commander would NOT take into account a helicopter attack? :) ).

 

There is a lot of stuff you can do, and as modules will be added, capability will also be added to AI, ME, etc. Black Shark is just the first installment of DCS and the future looks bright :)

[Flyby]

I can only imagine the legions of online players looking for coop missions where due diligenceis at the highest level. But how can a gunship pilot defend against a stinger team while attacking such a brigade? I can only guess that the gundhip attacks would have to be made at long range. But knowing me, I would not let it be that easy. Terrain would spoil the long range shot, but it might also mask the attacker! ;) Imagine the pucker factor of being within range of return fire, or possible Stingers and having to hold lock on your target! :D But wiat. Don't Stingers have a range of about 8 miles?

[GGTharos]

Game mechanics aside, the real item can start engagement at 9km, not nm - against incoming fixed wing aircraft. Helis, probably a bit closer since they aren't closing that fast (say 6km, this is just a guess on my part).

 

Now, how to deal with this threat; first, intelligence is key. Find out who designed the mission. If it's me, you can expect that stinger to pop up somewhere close to you, if I guessed where you'd prefer to attack from correctly ;)

Expect the road to the rear of the unit to be blocked by things far more dangerous than a stinger, and close range AAA support for the unit.

 

The stinger teams will be out-rigging to the flanks.

 

How you deal with all this:

Terrain masking and range are your friends. A stinger team will outrig, but only so far.

You can pop up, quickly spot and dlink some targets, then move and attack from a different location. While you're exposed, you trigger your handy-dandy countermeasure dispenser after having input an appropriate program; this can protect you for several attacks or for a particular amount of time, depending on what you want to do. Hopefuly this will decoy any stingers/iglas/funstuff while your vikhr is in flight.

 

Yes, counter-measure quantity has now become one of your checklist items in the decision to abort your mission, since a helicopter CANNOT DODGE. :)

[RedTiger]

I can only imagine the legions of online players looking for coop missions where due diligenceis at the highest level. But how can a gunship pilot defend against a stinger team while attacking such a brigade? I can only guess that the gundhip attacks would have to be made at long range. But knowing me, I would not let it be that easy. Terrain would spoil the long range shot, but it might also mask the attacker! ;) Imagine the pucker factor of being within range of return fire, or possible Stingers and having to hold lock on your target! :D But wiat. Don't Stingers have a range of about 8 miles?

 

This is my prescription for all attack helicopter problems; you are not an aircraft, you're a tank. You are a tank made of glass with a really accurate, long range main gun. You also have the ability to race along the roughest terrain at speeds that would make make a respectable sports car. And against those sneaky threats that a tank doesn't have to worry about (MANPAD), you get some countermeasures you can use.

 

I've never played a helo sim before, but I have used them in a few war games, TacOps in particular. That really made me appreciate the attack chopper for its speed and ability to traverse any terrain. It can literally seem to appear out of no where, kick you in the teeth, and then disappear just as quick. If you play your cards right and are careful, you may find that your biggest problem is that you don't have enough Vikhrs to kill all the targets you have. :)

[Esac_mirmidon]

And other important thing. Helicopters never attack alone if possible. The interarms relation between air, land and helo forces are very important ( Like Rommel teached far ago )

 

A cooperative attack or defense with a Brigade of Tanks in the middle, a company of helis at the flanks and air support like CAS flights for the general area is the key to success.

 

Helis alone cant do the job, the same like tanks alone or fighter bombers alone.