"Free Flight" - new main menu option

[cfrag]

DCS has a distinct accessibility issue - meaning that it's rather difficult for novices or casual players to get into the game. I feel that DCS is missing a big opportunity here to acquire new players.

 

For example, if a friend drops by, I can't simply have him/her jump into the cockpit of any of the planes I own and have them fly around. I always have to create a new mission and then run it, with a 50/50 probability that I screw up something. By the time the mission is ready to be flown, the other person has lost interest; the game has made the impression of being overly complex.

 

Here's my wish for a main menu item to counter that: INSTANT FREE FLIGHT.

Goal is to to be able to enter a cockpit and fly with minimal hassle while having maximum flexibility to show off and enjoy DCS. I envision a screen that gives the following options:

 

plane: any installed plane (drop-down menu - or choose from the panel like in Instant Action)

map: any installed map (drop-down)

start at: air, take off, hot ramp, cold ramp. (drop down -- There is exactly one location defined for each option for each map, nothing fancy, no carrier)

 

Big button below this: Fly!

 

The luxury version also allows you to choose time of day and season.

The super luxury version allows you to choose between three weather options (nice, cloudy, thunderstorm)

 

Don't make this too complex, default should always be the one option that would any casual player want. No enemies, no loadout, plane is always fully fueled on start (advanced players can choose loadout on the ground, as the airfield is always owned by player, player belongs to combined task force). Each map can have a standard set of (harmless) units at standard locations that are simply there and can even be attacked with no consequences)

 

Please Note: I'm aware that many modules offer a free flight mission in the Instant Action panels, but it's not consistent, and too rigid).

 

Thanks.

[Robi Hobby]

That's what I don't understand either.

 

I can't even choose a INSTANT ACTION, Cold start or free Flight with the Gazelle on the following Map. Syria, Persian Gulf, Normandy and The Channel.

I can't even do a free Flight and Cold start in Syria and the Persian Gulf Map with the AV8B.

 

It should be standard that under INSTANT ACTION all Planes and Helicopters on all Maps allow a free Flight and Cold start.

[Xilon_x]

in reality a plane starts from the ground and does not start flying. If you want to fly free, do as in reality, get on the plane and train in two, there are two-seater planes for training.

[cfrag]

55 minutes ago, Xilon_x said:

in reality a plane starts from the ground and does not start flying.

 

I appreciate your opinion - I take a less hard-core, lighter approach to DCS; are you aware of the (imho too rigid) 'free flight' missions that come with most modules and start in mid-air? DCS is not always purely about realism. Dead give-away: the 'immortal', 'easy comms' and 'unlimited ammo/fuel' checkboxes in ME. Games should also be fun, it's a matter of mix and personal taste and it's great that DCS allows you to curtail the experience to you own liking.

 

I for my part appreciate that DCS can also be fun. Landing the Harrier on an oil rig is unrealistic but fun. I've created lots of unrealistic missions where my Tomcat is in the air, perfectly lined up for recovery on the Roosevelt; where I'm in the Bug flying over snowed-in Caucasus; occasionally I simply like flying for fun (flying the Beqaa Valley and surrounding mountains in the C101 is pure bliss). Sundown over the Persian Gulf is simply beautiful. I want to be able to share all this with friends without having to cold-start the Bug and getting it in the air first - they'd have lost interest long before the INS has aligned... But that is mostly immaterial because often *I* want to be able to just jump into one of my planes just on the spur of the moment. 

 

55 minutes ago, Xilon_x said:

 If you want to fly free, do as in reality, get on the plane and train in two, there are two-seater planes for training.

 

Well, I don't have two DCS-capable rigs at home, nor would I want to purchase a second license for my F-14, C-101, Albatros and Huey just  to multicrew for a few minutes (and hey, the Herc is terrific in multicrew too). That seems a bit excessive, don't you think? Why not allow other people some simple fun?

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by cfrag
spelling

[SharpeXB]

Every module afaik already has a Free Flight quick mission. 
But this or the lack of it is not the barrier to DCS. Face it, this sim is just not for casual players. 
Oh sure I’ve hooked people up and sat them down with the HOTAS. It usually goes something like this

Pull up

pull up you’re gonna hit the ground

pull up... ok you’re dead. 
My friends are still stuck on the first mission in Modern Warfare where you gotta press “B” to jump on the chopper. 

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

I appreciate your opinion - I take a less hard-core, lighter approach to DCS; are you aware of the (imho too rigid) 'free flight' missions that come with most modules and start in mid-air? DCS is not always purely about realism. Dead give-away: the 'immortal', 'easy comms' and 'unlimited ammo/fuel' checkboxes in ME. Games should also be fun, it's a matter of mix and personal taste and it's great that DCS allows you to curtail the experience to you own liking.

 

I for my part appreciate that DCS can also be fun. Landing the Harrier on an oil rig is unrealistic but fun.

 

It sounds like you think that realistic and fun are mutually exclusive, which okay, maybe for more casual players like yourself (nothing wrong with that, though DCS doesn't really lend itself to that, but hopefully MAC will); for me on the other hand I find DCS fun because it's realistic and challenging; I like learning how to do things and its satisfying when I get it right. I'm basically PvE only in SP, and DCS' AI makes it probably a lot easier than it would be with PvP MP. And I'm basically rubbish at everything and I've been with DCS for ages, coming from SF2 and FSX. 90% of my missions in DCS are essentially free flight, either me trying to practice something (right now it's flying the Hip, which is pretty difficult with no rudder or throttle and no head tracking, on a set-up that makes making simultaneous cyclic and collective or rudder and collective impossible, plus I'm playing on a laptop with a small screen and no head tracking (using mouselook)).

 

AFAIK the easy mode stuff is designed to make it more accessible to newcomers so they can step up. They're also pretty useful for testing.

 

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

I've created lots of unrealistic missions where my Tomcat is in the air, perfectly lined up for recovery on the Roosevelt; where I'm in the Bug flying over snowed-in Caucasus; occasionally I simply like flying for fun (flying the Beqaa Valley and surrounding mountains in the C101 is pure bliss). Sundown over the Persian Gulf is simply beautiful. I want to be able to share all this with friends without having to cold-start the Bug and getting it in the air first - they'd have lost interest long before the INS has aligned... But that is mostly immaterial because often *I* want to be able to just jump into one of my planes just on the spur of the moment.

 

And that's all absolutely fine, wouldn't have it any other way. This is why hot starting and airborne starts are a thing.

 

100% of my missions are unrealistic in some aspect too, though that's mostly due to poorly fitting assets and maps.

 

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

Well, I don't have two DCS-capable rigs at home, nor would I want to purchase a second license for my F-14, C-101, Albatros and Huey just  to multicrew for a few minutes (and hey, the Herc is terrific in multicrew too). That seems a bit excessive, don't you think? Why not allow other people some simple fun?

 

Well, not really.

 

Well, unfortunately, the reason is that ED needs to make money, but sales are very frequent in DCS (there's usually 1 per-quarter/major holiday).

 

As for free flight, maybe it could be something in the instant action? Though kinda defeats the point of instant action. A better place to look at is missions (maybe they should be called single missions for clarity). But setting up free flight missions in the editor is super easy.

 

Just create new, with the countries you want (you can now edit them while mission editing, so don't be afraid if you miss something), on the map of your choosing. Then all you need to is place playable aircraft down wherever, setting them to 'client' and hitting save. If you want to configure the weather/time/date you can. All in all you're looking at probably 5-10 minutes of mission editing if that. 

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

It sounds like you think that realistic and fun are mutually exclusive

 

I really don't, and my apologies if I came across that way. I wasn't talking about realism at all - my point was accessibility: reducing the number of hoops you have to jump through to get to the point where I want to be in the simulation.

 

Let my try to explain: in RL, before I sit down in a cockpit, I have to plan the route, do my w/b, hand in the flight plan, drive to the airfield, get meteo, inspect the plane, and then finally sit in a cold, dark cockpit. Thankfully, none of that is required in sim gaming, although some sims optionally let you do that. And that's what I was fumbling to talk about: making the burdensome stuff optional. Using the game environment to your advantage. I like to run through the Hog's startup-procedure like the next person. And then there are days where I also like being able to just jump into a hot cockpit, flying at 10'000 AGL - something impossible in RL, a true boon possible only thanks to simming. Great accessibility in DCS!

 

In simming, I want to be able (not required) to skip the tedious stuff: simply jump into the cockpit of my Bug flying high above Kuwait to enjoy the sunset - without having to fire up ME first. Additionally, flying (not landing) a plane like the Hornet or Hog isn't all that difficult (most people I know grasp the fundamentals within seconds - last year, it took my godson, age 10, about 30 seconds), and I want to show off the great experience DCS provides (I'm flying VR, and it's simply stunning - probably the reason why I logged over 300 hours last year alone. Well - that, and Covid  ). So occasionally I want to be up and about in seconds. That requires no compromise in realism at all - if you discount the fact that I didn't have to cold-start the plane nor taxiing nor taking off. Just like skipping w/b or checking out the plane. I want full simulation realism without some of the hassles, and DCS is perfect for that. Optional easy communications is another great example for DCS's smart accessibility - good to have when I want to be lazy. And after a stressful day I sometimes want to be lazy with the comms.

 

 

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

But setting up free flight missions in the editor is super easy.

 

Just create new, with the countries you want (you can now edit them while mission editing, so don't be afraid if you miss something), on the map of your choosing. Then all you need to is place playable aircraft down wherever, setting them to 'client' and hitting save. If you want to configure the weather/time/date you can. All in all you're looking at probably 5-10 minutes of mission editing if that.

 

You are of course correct - and that's exactly what I'm talking about. I want a simple, accessible way in DCS to just jump into any of my planes on any of the maps I own to just fly. It may be whimsical, but it's something I truly wish I could do without first having to fire up ME and always twiddling with the same settings. Computers are great at automating processes, and that process seems like something inherently simple to automate. One plane out of a given set, one map out of a given set, one starting position from a set, a time of day, a season, a weather condition. Bam! 5 minutes for you in ED, or 100 ms for a script to create the same mission from parameters. I'll analyse the mission files to see if I can't automate miz creation myself, but ED is so much better positioned to integrate that.

 

7 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, unfortunately, the reason is that ED needs to make money, but sales are very frequent in DCS (there's usually 1 per-quarter/major holiday).

 

My point was that I think it excessive to have to own two rigs and licenses just to show someone else how great DCS is (i.e. require multicrew to let a friend fly) when they could as well solo on my own rig, using my paid-for modules (the issue here was that to let inexperienced pilots fly, it's easier if the plane starts in the air ("instant free flight") - something @Xilon_x wasn't too enthusiastic about in their kind post, advocating multicrew instead). I support DCS's way of refinancing, and have no issues with paying for updates (e.g. A-10C II). I'd even pay for a 3.0 update of the app itself. My point here was only with regards the postulated requirement of multicrew to let your friends fly. Multicrew itself is great, and of course it's one license per seat. 

 

 

 

 

[rkk01]

It’s not a question of casual versus hardcore... 

(and for some reason users here seem keen to relate to the highest possible status of hardcore )

 

it’s about accessibility and usability

 

DCS undoubtedly stands alone in terms of its approach, FMs, accuracy / fidelity and coding etc (and that’s not to say that each model is “right” or definitive...)

 

What that means, to me at least and I’m sure to others, is that you need to learn in DCS to fly well in DCS.... I’ve been “flying” on the PC since Microprose’s F-19 - that’s over 30 years, and has included EF2000, F-22/TAW, Falcon 4, Microsoft CFS 1&2, all / most of Janes USAF, IAF, Longbow, F-18, Flanker-LOMAC-DCS series... I’ve even had a dabble in that civ-sim, but didn’t like the no weapons element.  But that experience is only a general help in learning DCS.

 

So WHY NOT make it accessible and usable? I have a life crammed full of work, domestic, family commitments etc.  Half hour here or there on the PC is a gift to grab hold of... I don’t want to spend it in the editor!!!

 

a tailored quick combat / instant action setting would be great (I know, there already is...).  One that lets you set specific but simple parameters - Anton vs I-16, h2h, AI skill level 3000m, map x location y. The existing instant option doesn’t do this, but it would be great for learning specific aircraft and their ACM traits

[Northstar98]

 

Quote

You are of course correct - and that's exactly what I'm talking about. I want a simple, accessible way in DCS to just jump into any of my planes on any of the maps I own to just fly. It may be whimsical, but it's something I truly wish I could do without first having to fire up ME and always twiddling with the same settings.

 

Well, once you've made the mission and saved it, you don't have to go back to the editor each time. Make a mission once and then fly that each time.

 

Quote

Computers are great at automating processes, and that process seems like something inherently simple to automate. One plane out of a given set, one map out of a given set, one starting position from a set, a time of day, a season, a weather condition. Bam! 5 minutes for you in ED, or 100 ms for a script to create the same mission from parameters. I'll analyse the mission files to see if I can't automate miz creation myself, but ED is so much better positioned to integrate that.

 

There actually already is. Under 'create fast mission', if you go to advanced and set all the forces to none, you'll have a free flight mission.

 

Of course for multiplayer, you'll have to add a wingman. Luckily in advanced mode, there's a setting that lets you quickly go the editor and change the player aircraft to client and the wingman aircraft to client too and done. 

 

The whole thing took me a minute and 2 seconds - and most of that was letting the algorithm build the mission for me. I now have a free flight mission saved and I can edit this if I want to.

 

Of course this only really works for one aircraft; if you want to have multiple different flyable aircraft you'll be better off starting fresh in the editor. 

 

Quote

My point was that I think it excessive to have to own two rigs and licenses just to show someone else how great DCS is (i.e. require multicrew to let a friend fly) when they could as well solo on my own rig, using my paid-for modules (the issue here was that to let inexperienced pilots fly, it's easier if the plane starts in the air ("instant free flight") - something @Xilon_x wasn't too enthusiastic about in their kind post, advocating multicrew instead). I support DCS's way of refinancing, and have no issues with paying for updates (e.g. A-10C II). I'd even pay for a 3.0 update of the app itself. My point here was only with regards the postulated requirement of multicrew to let your friends fly. Multicrew itself is great, and of course it's one license per seat. 

 

In terms of rigs, there isn't much we can do about that, the nature of DCS is that it requires powerful hardware to have fun on without compromising settings.

 

Maybe in MP ED could let non-owners fly other modules, but given they have sales so often, obtaining a second shouldn't be too prohibitive.

 

30 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

it’s about accessibility and usability

 

DCS undoubtedly stands alone in terms of its approach, FMs, accuracy / fidelity and coding etc (and that’s not to say that each model is “right” or definitive...)

 

What that means, to me at least and I’m sure to others, is that you need to learn in DCS to fly well in DCS.... I’ve been “flying” on the PC since Microprose’s F-19 - that’s over 30 years, and has included EF2000, F-22/TAW, Falcon 4, Microsoft CFS 1&2, all / most of Janes USAF, IAF, Longbow, F-18, Flanker-LOMAC-DCS series... I’ve even had a dabble in that civ-sim, but didn’t like the no weapons element.  But that experience is only a general help in learning DCS.

 

So WHY NOT make it accessible and usable? I have a life crammed full of work, domestic, family commitments etc.  Half hour here or there on the PC is a gift to grab hold of... I don’t want to spend it in the editor!!!

 

You only need to spend 5-10 minutes once in the editor to get a free flight mission with every flyable aircraft available and multiplayer compatible.

 

But there is the generate fast mission option, which can produce free flight missions in a minute, while still allowing you full control to edit missions it generates.

 

Quote

a tailored quick combat / instant action setting would be great (I know, there already is...).  One that lets you set specific but simple parameters - Anton vs I-16, h2h, AI skill level 3000m, map x location y. The existing instant option doesn’t do this, but it would be great for learning specific aircraft and their ACM traits

 

The generate fast mission does exactly this. It doesn't always get things right, but when it slips up, it means a couple minutes or so of mission editing (for simple missions at least), but you only need to it once. After you hit save mission, you'll have that mission each time.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Northstar98

[cfrag]

3 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, once you've made the mission and saved it, you don't have to go back to the editor each time. Make a mission once and then fly that each time.

 

Certainly, a workable approach that I use today. That's why I came up with my 'wish' -- It currently requires five missions per plane (one per map). Then my loop is

- load up the mission for the region I want to fly

- set time & season

- set plane's staring condition

- save

- run

 

That's easy to automate I think (I've looked into the 'mission' and 'directory' lua files inside the .miz - yes, the relevant data is almost trivial to change. Since the entire mission file is autogen, why not automate this bit?

 

13 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

You only need to spend 5-10 minutes once in the editor to get a free flight mission with every flyable aircraft available and multiplayer compatible.

 

That's the accessibility issue - these 5-10 minutes are are not really necessary because it can be fully automated.

 

14 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

There actually already is. Under 'create fast mission', if you go to advanced and set all the forces to none, you'll have a free flight mission.

 

Nice! For some reason, I've completely overlooked that. Indeed, that is working almost exactly as I wanted, if in a slightly roundabout way. Thanks for the hint, @Northstar98 !  I believe that this is perhaps the core of my complaint - discoverability / accessibility of DCS features. I've logged over 700 hours in DCS and still have to figure out that there is a perfectly viable 'instant free flight' feature squirreled away in the create fast mission menu tree. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Maybe in MP ED could let non-owners fly other modules, but given they have sales so often, obtaining a second shouldn't be too prohibitive.

 

MC should be owner-exclusive. That wasn't the issue at all, neither was the module's price. It was the idea that in order to have free flight, one should fly multicrew.

 

 

 

[Northstar98]

13 minutes ago, cfrag said:

 

Certainly, a workable approach that I use today. That's why I came up with my 'wish' -- It currently requires five missions per plane (one per map). Then my loop is

- load up the mission for the region I want to fly

- set time & season

- set plane's staring condition

- save

- run

 

Yes, the create fast mission does exactly this.

 

For basic settings:

• Pick an aircraft
• Pick a country
• Where you want to start (i.e cold, hot, runway, airborne)
• AI skill level
• Theatre
• Season
• Weather
• Start Time

For advanced settings you've got all of the above, but you can also pick an airbase on the map, as well as the quantity of friendly/hostile forces of each type (i.e aircraft (attack/fighter/helicopter), air defences (individual controls for AAA and SAMs and vehicles), if everything is set to none, you'll just have a free-flight mission.

 

Hit generate mission and it'll build you something, if you don't like what it's built or want to inspect it, just hit edit mission and edit as you desire - you'll also have to go here to save the mission it built.

 

13 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Nice! For some reason, I've completely overlooked that. Indeed, that is working almost exactly as I wanted, if in a slightly roundabout way. Thanks for the hint, @Northstar98 !  I believe that this is perhaps the core of my complaint - discoverability / accessibility of DCS features. I've logged over 700 hours in DCS and still have to figure out that there is a perfectly viable 'instant free flight' feature squirreled away in the create fast mission menu tree.

 

Good to hear!

 

It does of course have some limitations - it can only build you simple missions, and it might not work so well with WW2 aircraft (it's not smart enough to use historical mode yet, but for simple missions it's a fairly easy fix - change the aircraft type and the waypoints speeds/altitude and all set).

 

And at least it gives you a quick way into the editor to make your own alterations if necessary.

 

[rkk01]

42 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

 

The generate fast mission does exactly this. It doesn't always get things right, but when it slips up, it means a couple minutes or so of mission editing (for simple missions at least), but you only need to it once. After you hit save mission, you'll have that mission each time.

 

Nope - ABSOLUTELY does NOT provide the ability for a quick mission against a specified enemy unit...

 

eg, say 1-2-1, Anton vs P-47, h2h / 12o’clock merge, angels 10...

 

there is no option to set adversary unit

[Northstar98]

18 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

Nope - ABSOLUTELY does NOT provide the ability for a quick mission against a specified enemy unit...

 

eg, say 1-2-1, Anton vs P-47, h2h / 12o’clock merge, angels 10...

 

there is no option to set adversary unit

 

 

If you want a P-47D vs an Fw 190. Go to the generate fast mission, select the P-47D and change the basic options. Then go to advanced options and change the task to intercept, you can change the aspect (head-on, flank, chase), and distance.

 

If you just want a 1vs1, all you need to do is set the enemy fighters to min, then click generate mission, once generated hit edit, delete the extra aircraft (minimum usually sets 4 groups of 2), select one group to be Fw 190 A-8s and done.

 

The whole set-up from hitting "generate fast mission", to setting up, to building the mission and tweaking the mission took me barely over half a minute, and I was fumbling around.

 

Sure it doesn't do everything by itself (and for WW2 aircraft it often gets the adversaries wrong, it gets the enemy "countries" correct, but doesn't set the date or use historical mode), but I fixed all of this in 10 seconds.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Northstar98

[rkk01]

Nah, genuinely doesn’t work...

 

even using Normandy map (to try and force date and allegiances...)

 

for Player Anton flight, intercept, 2km head on, none / min fighter adversaries...

 

hitting “edit” gives me 2 x 2 Third Reich Mig 29s vs 2 x 2 Hornets

 

none of which were player aircraft

[SharpeXB]

11 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

Nah, genuinely doesn’t work...

 

even using Normandy map (to try and force date and allegiances...)

 

for Player Anton flight, intercept, 2km head on, none / min fighter adversaries...

 

hitting “edit” gives me 2 x 2 Third Reich Mig 29s vs 2 x 2 Hornets

 

none of which were player aircraft

I think that fix is actually planned for the mission generator, the ability to set eras like WWII