not planned Easy mode AAR

[Akula]

38 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Sure! But you still haven't told us why the need for a new thread.
Should be merged.
I don't care if auto mode gets added. It takes time, but the reward is so fulfilling when you get there. That's what most users are telling you. And as I've said before. The Su-33 is really the easiest one for many reasons. It does have an AAR mode, even if I don't like it. You can lock the tanker with IRST, and the velocity ladder will tell you if you gain on it or not. And the Russian pods will actually do the same. If your perfect, if you get to close, or if you're falling behind.

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So you don’t care if it gets added but you seem to care about this being repeated many many times while ignoring perhaps, *why* players keep bringing it up. 
 

So you don’t care if it gets added but go on to state a bunch of reasons why the lack of choice we currently have is better…. For whom I wonder. 
 

I don’t see the point you’re trying to make. Sounds a little like; 

“Yeah I’m fine with it but here are some reasons why I’m also not fine with it and not fine with people being fine with it.“

 

Why does it bug you so much? If DCS offered this feature, you would be able to turn it off and on just like any assists the game currently offers…. So why?

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Akula]

On 9/14/2024 at 11:43 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Same. We even had the "get more customers!" assertion!

Of course….. Yes you nailed it!!!!!
 

“Let’s restrict our brand to hard core enthusiasts and ignore the possible increased revenue from a fresh wave of new and enthusiastic players who see all the YouTube videos and are super keen to experience this wonderful game. Let’s not expand the appeal and desire to improve the game. Let’s not even try to increase our revenue or attract new customers because we just want HARD CORE serious SIM pilots. Let’s keep all the *noobs* out”  

Said no game developer, ever.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Esac_mirmidon]

I´ve you invest half of the time and commitment writing here on improving your AAR skills, you could be a pro on air refuel right now.

If instead you can AAR with no issues, invest your time in teaching newcomers how to do so. I promise you is the most rewarding thing in DCS, teaching others is like no other thing in this game 

Edited September 18, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[Akula]

9 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

I´ve you invest half of the time and commitment writing here on improving your AAR skills, you could be a pro on air refuel right now.

If instead you can AAR with no issues, invest your time in teaching newcomers how to do so. I promise you is the most rewarding thing in DCS, teaching others is like no other thing in game computers.

 

What’s your point? What does that have to do with this discussion?
 

This is about giving people better choices to help them enjoy the game more. What part of this discussion do you not understand? 

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Esac_mirmidon]

ED choosed long ago his way into realism, deleting the Game Option in DCS and modelling only the real thing for every module, or at least this is ED approach to modules.

Automatic AAR is something that doesnt exits, so asking for it is not going to happen. 

Thats why my point is, teach newcomers in the AAR skills instead of asking for stuff thats out of ED path. This could do best helping people than an auto AAR thing. 

PD: If AAR is a problem so big, just edit a mission with unlimited fuel until you are able to properly refuel in the air. You know, choices.

 

Edited September 18, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[Akula]

13 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

ED choosed long ago his way into realism, deleting the Game Option in DCS and modelling only the real thing for every module, or at least this is ED approach to modules.

Automatic AAR is something that doesnt exits, so asking for it is not going to happen. 

Thats why my point is, teach newcomers in the AAR skills instead of asking for stuff thats out of ED path. This could do best helping people than an auto AAR thing. 

PD: If AAR is a problem so big, just edit a mission with unlimited fuel until you are able to properly refuel in the air. You know, choices.

 

 

Again, completely missing the entire point of this discussion while making false proclamations on behalf of the company.
 

You know as well as I do that companies exist to make a profit just as much as they do to make a product they are passionate about so please explain to me why you’re against ED making a product that would appeal to more players by offering more options and choices that allows them to immerse themselves in the game faster and then move onto joining a group or squad when they are ready to take it to the next level? 
 

Why are you so against that?

Also, you do realize that this discussion exists in a section of the forum that ED and DCS setup to get a pulse on what players would like to see developed. So we have people here who understand the need for it but others who jump in to try to shame and shut down anyone pointing out the reasons why it would improve the game.

The naysayers and the ridiculous arguments I’m reading make no sense. 
 

In my younger days I taught white water kayaking. I NEVER held back any tips and tricks and never forced students into learning something the way I learned it just because I learned it that way. I taught them using as many different ways I could to help them experience their moments positively so that they can build the confidence and passion to continue and improve.

Never did I tell a student that “this is the way we’ve always done it so you have to do it this way too.”

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Esac_mirmidon]

Whatever mate. Im not against anything. Just tryi..... What im doing arguing?

Keep asking for AUTO AAR mate. Its ok.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[MAXsenna]

So you don’t care if it gets added but you seem to care about this being repeated many many times while ignoring perhaps, *why* players keep bringing it up. 
 
So you don’t care if it gets added but go on to state a bunch of reasons why the lack of choice we currently have is better…. For whom I wonder. 
 
I don’t see the point you’re trying to make. Sounds a little like; 
“Yeah I’m fine with it but here are some reasons why I’m also not fine with it and not fine with people being fine with it.“
 
Why does it bug you so much? If DCS offered this feature, you would be able to turn it off and on just like any assists the game currently offers…. So why?

No, because these discussions always end up in the same way. (Often closed when people can't behave themselves). And it would also be better to add your thoughts, which are nothing new, to existing threads. Like all those other wishes where people think they just have a fantastic bright idea, and are too lazy to search the forum too see if someone else bear them to it.
As for auto refuel. It could easily be implemented. Ask for rejoin, find and fly to the tanker, get behind, "Ready pre contact" and boom, instant refuel.
As for helpers, some sort of IFLOLS overlay might help. And like I wrote. All of that has been suggested before. Not even by me.

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[MAXsenna]

27 minutes ago, Akula said:

Never did I tell a student that “this is the way we’ve always done it so you have to do it this way too.”

Now, it just have to be said. How did that auto pilot work in the kayak? 

28 minutes ago, Akula said:

In my younger days I taught white water kayaking. I NEVER held back any tips and tricks and never forced students into learning something the way I learned it just because I learned it that way. I taught them using as many different ways I could to help them experience their moments positively so that they can build the confidence and passion to continue and improve.

It's really funny you're writing this! It's actually kind of priceless. Many people are eager to tell others have they reach their goal, and have very different ways of getting there. But overall most agree that auto refueling won't get you anywhere near that goal. 

[Akula]

3 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

No, because these discussions always end up in the same way. (Often closed when people can't behave themselves). And it would also be better to add your thoughts, which are nothing new, to existing threads. Like all those other wishes where people think they just have a fantastic bright idea, and are too lazy to search the forum too see if someone else bear them to it.
As for auto refuel. It could easily be implemented. Ask for rejoin, find and fly to the tanker, get behind, "Ready pre contact" and boom, instant refuel.
As for helpers, some sort of IFLOLS overlay might help. And like I wrote. All of that has been suggested before. Not even by me.

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“So you don’t care if it gets added but you seem to care about this being repeated many many times while ignoring perhaps, *why* players keep bringing it up.”
 

Raising this point again to see why you don’t want to address why it keeps coming up. If you want to argue why it’s not needed then please explain why, by your own admission, you feel it keeps getting brought up. 

We can have a civil conversation about it but I don’t understand why people who don’t agree are so keen to point out how many times it’s been brought up AND flat out refuse to address the reasons why. If we can do this then we can move forward and help DCS make a better product. Suggesting DCS just; “stay the course and people need to STFU because hey! I learned it the hard way!” Doesn’t benefit the very intent of this forum section known as the 

“DCS core wish list”

[Esac_mirmidon]

We have unlimited fuel - unlimited ammo - no reaction to threads - no weapons on enemies - Green State - Turn off radar - No dispersion under fire

In my humble oppinion i think newcomers are safe inside DCS to come and enjoy. If on top of that a fellow comrade is willing to teach you from time to time the AAR techniques step by step, doing things like 10 minutes formation fly to the left of the tanker matching speed and angels, nothing more buddy, no pressure , no hurry, and left home. Tomorrow, we are doing the same, just match speed and angels this time behind the tanker, nothing more buddy, no hurry, no pressure just five minutes behind. Then left home, drink a beer, tomorrow i will see you online buddy.

Then now buddy ask the tanker and look at your HUD, canopy, etc and make a pic of that position behind the basket. Nothing else buddy, just keep steady on that picture, just 5 minutes mate, no pressure, no hurry, and we are leaving for another beer. Then next day, remember that mental pic on you head around the HUD? Now just keep that in the same place, and slowly try to be closer to the basket. Dont look the basket, look the fixed place, dont worry, no hurry, no pressure, if you go to close its ok, if you go to far, its ok, just try 2 minutes buddy. Then we leave and grab a beer.

Next day same rutine, and I PROMISE YOU and any newcomer the REWARD beeing the teacher, and beeing the newcomer buddy the first time you hit the basket WORTH every minute, every beer and every drop of sweat you expend in the process. Thats why MY POINT is, teach newcomers how to do things, like AAR, because AUTO THINGS teachs you nothing.

This kind of teaching-learning with patience and kind support of newcomers can attract more people to the game than 100 Auto things you can imagine.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[Akula]

Quote

Now, it just have to be said. How did that auto pilot work in the kayak?

Oh we have auto pilot lol…. We just hardly get to use it. Not a lot of glassy smooth waves you can surf on the upper Ottawa where you can sit back and chill with little to no paddle adjustments

But if you’re keen to learn I’ll teach you

13 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

We have unlimited fuel - unlimited ammo - no reaction to threads - no weapons on enemies - Green State - Turn off radar - No dispersion under fire

In my humble oppinion i think newcomers are safe inside DCS to come and enjoy. If on top of that a fellow comrade is willing to teach you from time to time the AAR techniques step by step, doing things like 10 minutes formation fly to the left of the tanker matching speed and angels, nothing more buddy, no pressure , no hurry, and left home. Tomorrow, we are doing the same, just match speed and angels this time behind the tanker, nothing more buddy, no hurry, no pressure just five minutes behind. Then left home, drink a beer, tomorrow i will see you online buddy.

Then now buddy ask the tanker and look at your HUD, canopy, etc and make a pic of that position behind the basket. Nothing else buddy, just keep steady on that picture, just 5 minutes mate, no pressure, no hurry, and we are leaving fo another beer. Then next day, remember that mental pic on you head around the HUD? Now just keep that in the same place, and slowly try to be closer to the basket. Dont look the basket, look the fixed place, dont worry, no hurry, no pressure, if you go to close its ok, if you go to far, its ok, just try 2 minutes budy. Then we leave and grab a beer.

Next day same rutine, and I PROMISE YOU and any newcomer the REWARD beeing the teacher, and beeing the newcomer buddy the first time you hit the basket WORTH every minute, every beer and every drop of sweat you expend in the process. Thats why MY POINT is, teach newcomers how to do things, like AAR, because AUTO THINGS doesnt teach you nothing.

This kind of teaching-learning with patience and kind support of newcomers can attract more people to the game than 100 Auto things you can imagine.

Dude, no one is arguing the rewarding feeling of accomplishment when you finally do learn to AAR.  I completely agree with you there….. But that’s not what this discussion is about.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Esac_mirmidon]

I think Auto AAR doesnt pull more people in DCS, It just makes AAR automatic.

My point is community help attracts more people into DCS. 

And i've nothing against Auto AAR. Its ok asking for It. Just for me adds nothing to the game. Sooner or later you would need to learn it, so why dont just join others in the process from the start?

[Akula]

6 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

I think Auto AAR doesnt pull more people in DCS, It just makes AAR automatic.

My point is community help attracts more people into DCS. 

And i've nothing against Auto AAR. Its ok asking for It. Just for me adds nothing to the game. Sooner or later you would need to learn it, so why dont just join others in the process from the start?

But you’re not addressing the appeal that AUTO AAR would have for new (and as another discussion suggested, older players in their golden years) if it was offered as a choice so let’s have that conversation, shall we? 
 

You’ve been clear about the reasons why YOU wouldn’t use it…. OK, that’s you. See what I mean?

Edited September 18, 2024 by Akula

[Esac_mirmidon]

I've just said It. Nothing against. Doesnt make sense for me but its alright asking for It. Maybe someday ED will add It.

And i will cover the box with my finger everytime im checking the gameplay options just not to see It.

[MAXsenna]

32 minutes ago, Akula said:

“So you don’t care if it gets added but you seem to care about this being repeated many many times while ignoring perhaps, *why* players keep bringing it up.”
 

Raising this point again to see why you don’t want to address why it keeps coming up. If you want to argue why it’s not needed then please explain why, by your own admission, you feel it keeps getting brought up. 

Right! I see. The moderators have stated that threads with votes (stars at the top), traction and good arguments gets attention. So starting a new thread actually defeats your purpose. And, are you aware that alive threads don't get buried, but are actually lifted to the top, (except for pinned ones of course). Hence why I suggest it should be merged with an existing one. I'm trying to help here, believe it or not. I hope this made it clearer. And don't mind a certain user when he comes around. 50% of his job in this forum is to make wishes go boom! He's fun though!  

32 minutes ago, Akula said:

We can have a civil conversation about it

Of course we can! Best part if this forum! I'm having a beer, so I'm all in, as you can see above! 

32 minutes ago, Akula said:

If we can do this then we can move forward and help DCS make a better product.

Pretty sure that's the end game for everyone. But the audience here you know, are well above intelligent, invested, besser wissers, stubborn and been around the block quite few times. See what I mean? Pretty sure you've seen pretty heated arguments even if the participants actually agreed!

I've said my piece many times, on how I did it. Only to be shot down by others that claimed it was not the way. Well, I did what I new was best for me until it clicked. I just decided I was gonna do it. 2-3 hours every day for 10 days, basically. And I was not gonna give up. 

Now, I don't believe any one of us feels threatened by an easy/auto AAR mode. But it will detract some manpower from bug fixing etc. is a common argument. It's not as easy as marking the optimal path on an F1 track, and where those sims has a sole purpose. Making you a better driver. Nothing else. So those sims will be developed around that from the start. 

 

30 minutes ago, Akula said:

Oh we have auto pilot lol…. We just hardly get to use it. Not a lot of glassy smooth waves you can surf on the upper Ottawa where you can sit back and chill with little to no paddle adjustments

But if you’re keen to learn I’ll teach you

I'll bring the beer!  

[cfrag]

26 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Now, I don't believe any one of us feels threatened by an easy/auto AAR mode. But it will detract some manpower from bug fixing etc. is a common argument.

Indeed. I advocate adding a fuel API to the mission scripting environment. Just a single Unit.setFuel(theUnit, percent) method is all I'm asking for. The week that ED adds the ability for mission scripters to set (increase or decrease) the amount of fuel in player units is the week where passable scripting solutions for AAR become available. Good scripting solutions will follow a few days later, and we can finally put this tired thread (and its suffering brethren) to rest. Oh, and adding said API would not break the bank effort-wise: we know that all the methods already exist for single- and multiplayer (how else would today's rearm & refuel dialog work). 

So here's to hoping that ED takes a heart and allows mission creators a tiny, tiny additional functionality. Note that this would also allow us to finally create mission profiles with dead-stick landings where your fuel runs out 20 nm before touch-down (we currently can't script leaking fuel-tanks either...)

Edited September 18, 2024 by cfrag

[Akula]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

But overall most agree that auto refueling won't get you anywhere near that goal. 

That’s an opinion and one that I would disagree with. OVERALL? Bro, come on.
 

I’d argue that overall most don’t give a crap if it’s a choice or not and those that argue against it are in the minority vs those that want it… But we can agree to disagree. 

[MAXsenna]

That’s an opinion and one that I would disagree with. OVERALL? Bro, come on.
 
I’d argue that overall most don’t give a crap if it’s a choice or not and those that argue against it are in the minority vs those that want it… But we can agree to disagree. 

Okay, I probably exaggerated. I do deduct from what people trying to help are saying though. How will auto AAR help you in any way against your goal?
Learn how to fly formation with miniscule movement of the stick, and back and forth with your throttle. If one has a HOTAS. I know it can be done with mouse and keyboard or an Xbox controller too. Even learning to fly and hover helicopters will help you. And when you can adequately achieve formation flying. There are many helpful videos out there explaining how to position particular modules with the various tankers. But that gets rather easy when you have accomplished the first basket or the first boom. Because then you can trial and error on your own. Because you will know what to look for.

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[SharpeXB]

28 minutes ago, Akula said:

those that argue against it are in the minority vs those that want it

Actually not

 

[MAXsenna]

Actually not
 

Hi there! Was expecting you!
Not sure if that poll is relevant today. And this thread is about auto refuel actually, isn't it?

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[SharpeXB]

4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Hi there! Was expecting you!

 

And that’s all I have to say, I’m out! 
This has been discussed enough already

[av8orDave]

I'm all for "easy" options that make the game enjoyable for new players.

It is an eye-roller for me when people use arguments like "if you spent half the time..." and "it is DCS not War Thunder..." in threads like this. 

If you don't want to use an option, don't use it. It shouldn't be offensive or "toxic" if someone else requests those options. While it remains that DCS is focused on "realism", we're talking about sitting in your living room "flying" a jet. You don't have to pass the physical standards, education standards, or years of training to do so. Ultimately, even DCS isn't very "realistic", so what's the harm in someone else wanting an option for easy refueling?

[Akula]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I'll bring the beer!

Drunk whitewater kayaking?????

Been there…. Fun but  SCARY AF

[MAXsenna]

I'm all for "easy" options that make the game enjoyable for new players.
It is an eye-roller for me when people use arguments like "if you spent half the time..." and "it is DCS not War Thunder..." in threads like this. 
If you don't want to use an option, don't use it. It shouldn't be offensive or "toxic" if someone else requests those options. While it remains that DCS is focused on "realism", we're talking about sitting in your living room "flying" a jet. You don't have to pass the physical standards, education standards, or years of training to do so. Ultimately, even DCS isn't very "realistic", so what's the harm in someone else wanting an option for easy refueling?

Absolutely! As long as there is a choice for everything!

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Drunk whitewater kayaking?????
Been there…. Fun but  SCARY AF

Bet you have!

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