im having trouble with SoftTH

[hannibal]

ok, i just ordered some widescreen monitors...3 to be exact..

going into surround gaming.

 

i am trying to prep for black shark..but i am running into trouble with SoftTH..

i got 20" widescreen x3, conneected to 8800GTS(g92- PCI-e) and a 8500GT(also on PCIe)...

 

i am running version 1.07b of the softTH files...but i am getting windoers lockon error..

 

heLP????

 

(UPDATE)

ok..im using 1.08bRC2...

now i can get in to the game, but the vision looks streched...

 

what am i not setting?

Edited August 29, 2008 by hannibal

[CAT_101st]

This shuld be posted in the tech section

[multiviper]

wow never knew softTh existed thanks....

[hannibal]

This shuld be posted in the tech section

 

sorry...i posted there..its like people dont even read the tech section...

[urze]

Hi Hannibal,

please post your FC graphics.cfg and your softth.cfg that people can see whats wrong with your settings.

Anyway, it sounds that you don't have the right aspect ratio set in FC - without knowing your used resolution I can't say what to use.

 

Also cange these lines in the FC root->config-> view folder that you are able to zoom and look around properly in the cockpit:

 

view.lua:

-- Camera view angle limits {view angle min, view angle max}.

CameraViewAngleLimits = {}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {20.0, 500.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {20.0, 500.0}

 

server.lua:

-- Camera angle limits {horizontal angle max, vertical angle min, vertical angle max}

CameraAngleLimits = {}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

 

My softth setup with 6 screens:

Used screens from upper right to lower left:

19" - 22" - 19"

15" (stretched the image with the built in option menu of the monitor, that his image fits with the upper one)

15" touchscreen (about 40cm in front of the upper one, so that the right and left edges are aligned with the upper one from my perspective )

15" (also stretched)

Edited August 29, 2008 by urze

[Fodder]

 

View.lua

 

-- Camera view angle limits {view angle min, view angle max}.

CameraViewAngleLimits = {}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {20.0, 175.0}

CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {20.0, 175.0}

 

server.lua

 

-- Camera angle limits {horizontal angle max, vertical angle min, vertical angle max}

CameraAngleLimits = {}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {110.0, -80.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {140.0, -75.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {140.0, -65.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {140.0, -65.0, 90.0}

CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {140.0, -80.0, 90.0}

 

 

Here's a little test I did with the aspect ratios.

Resolution: 5952x1200

And the SofTH used was 1.07. I guess 1.08 should have some squash screen setting that allows the main menu to be in one screen but the 1.08 caused me problems so came back to 1.07.

You can see how the aspect ratio effects. You can see much wider and the radar screen becomes more visible. And sorry about the picutre quality and all :P

The settings used here can be found in the Triplehead2go thread and all the credit goes to them people in the links :)

Also these pictures were taken with the zoom all the way out. Just changing the aspect ratio in the Graphics.cfg

 

Wow! What is the resolution on that 6 screen thingie? :) Next I'll have to try those settings from urze :) Thanks dude!

 

Hope this will be of some help as well :)

 

EDIT: Urzes settings work perfect with the FOV and all but zooming further out makes the textures on the sides disappear. Now just have to find the right aspect ratio again I guess.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Fodder

[hannibal]

whoa...those screenies are sexy!

 

ok..hears my current config...

config:

[config]

; deviceIDLeft/right: Direct3D device ID's of left and right monitor, or 'auto' for automatic

; secondaryWidth/Height: Left&right monitor resolution, or 'auto' to use same as middle screen resolution

; secondaryRefresh: Refresh rate of left & right monitors, or 'auto' for automatic

; secondaryFormat: Secondary device image format, 'RGB32', 'RGB16' or 'RGB16D'.

; borderSize: Size in pixels of frame border between monitors that is discarded

; noHotkeys: Set to 1 to disable all hotkeys

; noOSD: Set to 1 to disable on-screen display when changing settings (Also disables GDI+ initialization)

deviceIDLeft=auto

deviceIDright=auto

secondaryWidth=auto

secondaryHeight=auto

secondaryRefresh=auto

secondaryFormat=RGB16D

borderSize=0

sideExtraWidth=auto

noHotkeys=0

noOSD=0

 

[Direct3D]

; ** Advanced setting for Direct3D games **

; lensCorrection: Lens correction, set to 1 to enable support. >1 to enable by default

; lensCorrectionEdge: Lens correction edge offset

; hideNondefaultDevices: Hides all but the default adapter from the game

; forceHorizontalFOV: Forces horizontal FOV to be three times as wide

; forceResolutionWidth/Height: Forces device to be created with this resolution

; force16bitDepth: Force game to use 16bit depth buffer, can improve performance and reduce memory use

; sleepBeforeRead: Time in ms to sleep before reading back buffer data from video card

; useMultihead: Uses multihead features of primary card if available, can increase performance and reduce memory use

; delayedPresent: When useMultihead enabled, delay primary monitor present to sync with secondary head

; swapOrder: Swap order at which the frame contents are copied

; d3d8dll: Path to D3D8.dll/D3D9.dll to use or auto for automatic (system32 dir)

lensCorrection=0

lensCorrectionEdge=0

cylindicalCorretionAngle=0

hideNondefaultDevices=0

forceHorizontalFOV=0

forceResolutionWidth=5040

forceResolutionHeight=1050

force16bitDepth=0

sleepBeforeRead=2

useMultihead=1

delayedPresent=0

swapOrder=0

autoSquash=0

d3d8dll=auto

 

[hooks]

; Win32 API hooking settings - Used for some extra compatibility and game-specific fixes

; doHooking: Enable/disable hooks in Direct3D, with OpenGL hooks are always enabled

; doScaleMouseCoordinates: Scale mouse coordinates for getCursorPos to fix games which do not handle negative screen coordinates properly

; doScaleFromLeftScreen: Spread out mouse coordinates from left screen to full width

; doScaleWindowRects: Scale focus window WindowRect

; doScaleClientRects: Scale focus window ClientRect

; mouseXoffset: Number of pixels to offset mouse cursor position in X axis, to fix misplaced cursor due to negative screen coordinates. auto = use X resolution

doHooking=1

doScaleMouseCoordinates=0

doScaleFromLeftScreen=0

doScaleWindowRects=0

doScaleClientRects=1

mouseXoffset=auto

 

; Triplehead screenmodes to add to resolutions list (width multiplied by 3 and border added)

; 'auto' adds current primary monitor desktop resolution

; Must be last in this file

[modes]

640x480x60

640x480x75

640x480x85

800x600x60

800x600x75

800x600x85

1024x768x60

1024x768x75

1024x768x85

1280x960x60

1280x960x75

1280x960x85

1280x1024x60

1280x1024x75

1280x1024x85

1600x1200x60

1600x1200x75

1600x1200x85

auto

 

log:

0.0000 SoftTH: SoftTH v1.08 by Kegetys (D3D8)

0.0000 SoftTH: Loading configuration C:\Documents and Settings\user\SoftTH.cfg

0.0000 SoftTH: Loading configuration C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Eagle Dynamics\Lock On\SoftTH.cfg

0.0000 SoftTH: Left monitor ID autodetected as 2

0.0000 SoftTH: Right monitor ID autodetected as 1

0.0150 SoftTH: Secondary resolution autodetected as 1680x1050

0.0150 SoftTH: sideExtraWidth autodetected as 0 (1680x1050/1680x1050)

0.0150 SoftTH: Added auto resolution 1680x1050 60Hz

0.0150 SoftTH: loadConfig return

0.0150 SoftTH: Activating Win32 hooks...

0.0000 STHook: Hooks: Attached

0.0470 SoftTH: Direct3DCreate8 (ver 220)

0.2180 SoftTH: Adapter 0: nv4_disp.dll, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 512 with SoftTH v1.08 by Kegetys (D3D8)

0.2970 SoftTH: Adapter 1: nv4_disp.dll, NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT

0.3590 SoftTH: Adapter 2: nv4_disp.dll, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 512

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 1920x480 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 2400x600 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 3072x768 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x960 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x1024 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 4800x1200 f16

0.4220 SoftTH: Added mode 5040x1050 f16

0.5620 SoftTH:

0.5620 SoftTH: CreateDevice 1920x1080 0Hz 22bf 75df 0/0ms

0.5620 SoftTH: Focus window: 'LOCK ON'

0.5620 SoftTH: Overriding resolution to 5040x1050

0.5620 SoftTH: Triplehead mode requested (5040x1050 0Hz), enabling TH

0.5620 SoftTH: Validating settings

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 1920x480 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 2400x600 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 3072x768 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x960 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x1024 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 4800x1200 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Added mode 5040x1050 f16

0.5620 SoftTH: Using D3DCREATE_FPU_PRESERVE

0.5620 SoftTH: 1 backbuffer(s): 1680x1050

0.5620 SoftTH: SwapEffect 1, PP Flags 00000000, Behaviour Flags 00000046

1.1560 SoftTH: Storing function pointers...

1.1560 SoftTH: Creating additional device windows

1.1560 SoftTH: Monitor left: -1680x0

1.1560 SoftTH: Monitor right: 1680x0

1.1560 SoftTH: Focus window: 395462 'LOCK ON'

1.1560 SoftTH: Creating window (pos -1680x0, size 1680x1050)

1.2030 SoftTH: Creating window (pos 1680x0, size 1680x1050)

1.2340 SoftTH: Creating device left..

1.3120 SoftTH: Creating device right..

1.5470 SoftTH: initStuff, Reset left device

1.6400 SoftTH: initStuff, Reset left device done

1.6400 SoftTH: initStuff, Reset main device

1.6400 SoftTH:

1.6400 SoftTH: Reset main device (1680x1050) FOO

1.6400 SoftTH: Releasing additional surfaces

1.6400 SoftTH: copySurf: Releasing shaders & buffers...

1.7030 SoftTH: Reset OK

1.7030 SoftTH: Reset return main device (1680x1050) FOO

1.7030 SoftTH: initStuff, Reset main device done (B)

1.7340 SoftTH: GetBackBuffer..

1.7340 SoftTH: Creating additional surfaces

1.7340 SoftTH: Create new backbuffer... (5040x1050, f22, ms0-0)

1.7340 SoftTH: Creating depth buffer.. (5040x1050, f75 ms0-0)

1.7340 SoftTH: Creating tmpTex (3360x1050, f22)...

1.7340 SoftTH: Creating tmpTexSH (3360x1050, f23)...

1.7340 SoftTH: Creating tmpTexB (3360x1050, f23)...

1.7500 SoftTH: Triplehead: cr: 1680x1050, sr: 1680x1050

1.7500 SoftTH: Video memory used: 76.61MB

1.7500 SoftTH: InitStuff done

1.7500 SoftTH: copySurf: Initializing

1.7500 SoftTH: numRefsFreeDevice: 6

1.7500 SoftTH: CreateDevice return (5040x1050)

4.8590 SoftTH: createQuad: Creating new buffer 0x0 - 3360x1050 (0/8)

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 1920x480 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 2400x600 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 3072x768 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x960 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 3840x1024 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 4800x1200 f16

155.3280 SoftTH: Added mode 5040x1050 f16

683.4060 STHook: Hooks: Detached

683.4370 SoftTH: ProxyDLL deinit (C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Eagle Dynamics\Lock On\d3d8.dll)

683.4370 SoftTH: RELEASE HOOK! <"C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Eagle Dynamics\Lock On\lockon.exe" >

683.4370 SoftTH: Released mouse hook

683.4370 SoftTH: ProxyDLL Exit

 

note..im runnign 3x 20" wide@ 1680x1050 for each monitor, on a 8800GTS and 8500GT...

im running xp 32bit..but im going to give 64bit a try after this is successful......

[Fodder]

Here's how to calculate the bordersize http://www.kegetys.net/forum/index.php?topic=219.0

 

And here's the part from the FAQ about SideExtraWidth if you want to try different resolutions on the side monitors.

 

The sideExtraWidth setting in SoftTH 1.05 allows this. For example, a setup with 1360x768 widescreen on middle monitor, 1024x768 on side monitors:

- Add 1360x768x85 to the modelist at the bottom of the SoftTH.cfg file

- Set sideExtraWidth setting to (side monitor width) minus (middle monitor width), that is 1024 - 1360 so sideExtraWidth=-336

- Set secondaryWidth and secondaryHeight to 1024 and 768 (You can also use another mode, such as 800x600 here for better framerate)

- Game resolution is now (1360*3)-(336*2) = 3408 pixels wide, mode 3408x768 should appear on the modelist

 

I don't know how well the "auto" setting works on the 1.08 but you don't need to change that anyway if you use the same resolution in every monitor. (auto or 0 will do)

 

Also put 2 monitors on the 8800GTS and 1 on the 8500. That way you can use the multihead 1. Or vice versa to see if anything happens to the fps. Most people use 2 monitors on the primary card as to minimize the traffic to the second card. My second PCI-E is 4x so it slows things down a bit

Edited August 30, 2008 by Fodder

[hannibal]

fodder..urze...you been alot of help..thanks a ton..

 

workin ok so far..

but fodder, how do i deal with the bezels?....

whopps....you link explains..

 

thanks again..

[hannibal]

ok..im back...

 

wow..playing the chase view on 3 screens is amazing...

but..

why is it that i can not view the bottom of the instruments and flight stick in cockpit view? its like i want to see the throttle, but i cant seem to pan down any further below the HSI....

 

also, when i am in chase view, i can see the id's on all friendly and enemy targets in chse view, ...once i change over to cockpit view, they seem to dissapear, and then i can not tell where my targets are...

 

my monitors are set to 3x (1600x900)..i can go to 1680x1050, but i get lag... do you suggest 1360x768? i wanted to do that res, but i dont see it as an option in windows display properties...

 

by the way fodder..how do you get that crisp green landmass on your monitor? it is a map pack?

Edited September 2, 2008 by hannibal

[Triggerhappy69]

OK..! This does it for me..!

 

After reading this, and drooling over your pics I just couldn't help myself..! I have ordered four ned monitors.. And URZE..? Can I come and play on yuur computer..? Pleaasee..?

[hannibal]

ok..i found out what my problem is..

i didnt set the CameraAngleLimits in the server.lua for the A-10 and F15...

 

i can now see the flight stick when i pan down...

 

but man, my fps drops like a meatball!

its not as smooth as that youtube view that i see...

 

any ideas that i can do to address performance issues?

i am running windows XP 32bit... 4G Ram

8800GTS 512 OC + 8500GT

im runngin a resulotion of 4060x900 on 3 widescrreen 20" inch

[urze]

im runngin a resulotion of 4060x900 on 3 widescrreen 20" inch

 

If you are using the 1.08 version of SoftTH I highly recommend you to switch to the 1.07 or even the 1.06. LOckon-FC is directX 8. It will not profit from the 1.08 features because they work only for directX 9 games. And many people also reported that they loss FPS. I Loss about 10-15 Frames when using 1.08 .

 

After that you can do several things to get more FPS:

-Lower the sidescreen resolution to 1024x768 (960x800) or even 800x600

-try sleepBeforeRead=-1 in the softth CFG

-Lower your resolution of your center monitor.

-Switch AA and AF to application controlled in the NVIDIA settings and

use only the values in the SoftTH CFG

 

I use an overall resolution of 3428x1920 and this is my 1.07 softth.cfg:

deviceIDLeft=1

deviceIDright=2

secondaryWidth=1024

secondaryHeight=1536

secondaryRefresh=75

secondaryFormat=YUV12

antialiasing=2

anisotropic=0

borderSize=50

sideExtraWidth=-256

noHotkeys=0

cylindicalCorretionAngle=0

hideNondefaultDevices=0

forceHorizontalFOV=0

forceResolutionWidth=0

forceResolutionHeight=0

force16bitDepth=0

sleepBeforeRead=-1

useMultihead=0

delayedPresent=0

swapOrder=0

autoSquash=0

d3d8dll=auto

 

doHooking=1

doScaleMouseCoordinates=0

doScaleFromLeftScreen=0

doScaleWindowRects=0

mouseXoffset=0

[modes]

1280x1920x75

 

my Graphics.cfg:

near_clip = 0.2;

middle_clip = 2.;

far_clip = 60000;

structures = {100, 5000};

trees = {100000, 8000};

dynamic = {300, 20000};

objects = {3000, 50000};

mirage = {3000, 10000};

surface = {14000, 80000};

lights = {50, 10000};

lod = 1.5;

}

}

ShadowLevel = 1;

LightsLevel = 2;

MirrorsLevel = 1;

TextureLevel = 2;

WaterQuality = 2;

FogQuality = 1;

SceneFile = "High";

ScreenNoise = 0;

TextureCollections

 

I use E6750@3400 and a 8800GT as primary. I'm having a average FPS of 27 ( 16 over Sevastopol ). CPU is a E6750@3400 .

Edited September 5, 2008 by urze

[hannibal]

actually my monitors are all set to 1600x900...

 

i will give the 1.07 a try...

i wanted to lower the resolution of the sides, but 1600x900 is the lowest 16:9 aspect choice i have in the display settings of windows...

[urze]

actually my monitors are all set to 1600x900...

 

i will give the 1.07 a try...

i wanted to lower the resolution of the sides, but 1600x900 is the lowest 16:9 aspect choice i have in the display settings of windows...

 

You are not bound to use a 16:9 aspect ratio! I run 1280x960 on my upper/center 22".

the aspect ratio setting in the graphics.cfg will correct it when you choose the right value ! Also try using the forceware 169.21.:thumbup:

 

P.S.

Triggerhappy,

You can knock at my door anytime :smilewink:.

Edited September 5, 2008 by urze

[hannibal]

so what do you enjoy the most in black shark?

 

as of today, i am shelving my triple monitor setup.

granted that playing in chase view is amazing

but other than that, i dont think it justifies having to deal with a picky setup via softTH,

odd Field Of Visions, reduced FPS compared to single monitor...

 

but probably the biggest reason is...

RUNNING THE GAME ON LOW RES, just because the main graphics card is bottlenecked having to push data to the secondary video card...

 

do users of triplehead2go to go have this problem?

still i dont like the fact that not all games are not garanteed to work..

sux that my current number one game dosent work.. (battlefield 2....FOV is horrible)

 

the only thing i didnt try is running on XP 64bit or Vista 64bit with 6G RAM...but i have the feeling it wont make a difference...

Edited September 6, 2008 by hannibal

[Fodder]

by the way fodder..how do you get that crisp green landmass on your monitor? it is a map pack?

 

No that's just the default land but the first 2 are taken with camera flash on and the rest off so nothing more to it :)

 

You do need a pretty fast computer using 3 monitors. With SofTH I get a 30+fps hit because of SoftTH but it still keeps it playable at anywhere from 20-40fps. It's because of the PCI-E that is 4x. I'm going to invest on the next generation GPU maybe around christmas or whenever BS comes out to see if that helps at all. But if Matrox manages to up the resolution on triplehead2go then buying that might be a good idea because that way I'm not limited with the 5040x1050 resolution.

 

SofTH is free but takes a huge FPS hit. Triplehead is expensive but allows the use of SLi/Crossfire and no need for a second card so no FPS hit. SofTH allows the use of any resolution. Triplehead don't need as much tweaking? Triplehead supports the native resolution of your monitors so that might be a good investment. See with the SofTH what how much the software effects on you. (Press the button between ctrl and windows key + E during the game) If I understand that correctly the hit softTH has is the upper most FPS and the game itself is the one that is the lowest. Getting those 30fps back with a 300e triplehead might be justified, but my problem is monitors that are too big :P (I want to use the native resolution because scaling seems to add input lag and making things look strange at other resolutions)

 

On BS the FOV and Trackir problems are fixed, I think, so that's good news :) I think that's what this means anyway:

 

From the July dev update:

- Triple-head support has been added

- Multi-monitor support has been added. Now you can set, i.e. standard view + Shkval view on 2 monitor

 

So even if not using SotTH or triplehead you can still use 3 monitors :) Middle for flying and the others for Shkval and ABRIS. Hooray! :cheer3nc:

 

Also you might want to test the bandwidth from this thread and post it there: http://www.kegetys.net/forum/index.php?topic=427.0 My tests and results are also there with the username: Cunha. Hopefully these will get you in the right direction in making a decision whether buying TH2Go or maybe new pc and softth or what :)

Edited September 6, 2008 by Fodder

[hannibal]

So even if not using SotTH or triplehead you can still use 3 monitors :) Middle for flying and the others for Shkval and ABRIS. Hooray! :cheer3nc:

 

that is true...

 

man, only if i had your great summary to read before i bought the monitors..

yes, thats right..

when i was looking in to getting monitors, i had a deliema on choosing which monitors to buy...

I loved urze's set up with the two monitors on the side in portrait mode (90 degrees rotated), but then i found out that TH2G dosent like monitors of a dissimalar screen size (meaning the TH2G is meant for 3 monitors of the same size).

i mean i did learn alot from geting into the widescreen forums....

 

new PC?

i wont be getting a new PC until Battlefield 3 comes out, and i will be looking at its requirement...

but when it does, it will be a monster PC....

 

as of today, i am putting away my heli pit unitl black shark comes out. spend months building it, and im not even using it. i lost my gunner on battlfield (my friend has less leisure time) and i havent even found anyone who practices on sims like FSX. my bathroom will occupy me for the next 2-4 months...

Edited September 6, 2008 by hannibal