correct as is F18 can land anywhere easily.

[Vampiresquid]

On 4/11/2021 at 4:59 AM, StevanJ said:

Most Airplanes can land anywhere (see videos above), we limit risk by secluding airplanes (that cost millions) to a space thats more secure and work to keep those areas (aiports) free of debris. Limiting danger to others and the airframe where possible. Limiting the cost of maintainance too.
The chance of something going wrong in a field is high. The chance of something going wrong in an air base is slim.
Can a Harrier takeoff from a Field? Yes. Should it take off from a farp or even an air base? Yes.

If something 'could' do it, then it should be left in the sim.

 

I think we cant expect ED to realistically program each terrain as if its its own object grass, ploughed fields, mud, concrete. I think it would be too difficult to define those different parameters to each airplane and map. And because of that we'll never find a system that pleases everyone.
 

Is it realistic for ED to reprogram terrain to accomodate each aircraft/temperature/firmness? Not in my opinion.

I think if we looked at the terrain, it wouldnt really change anything, if we looked at foreign object debris, then sure..
But then why not look closely at birdstrike stats too?
Why not look more closely at failures, and the FA18 oxygen failure stats?
 

For me the line is good where it is, Its not a bug. Its a great feature to understand that the FA18 'could' emergency land anywhere if it needed to, should you? No.
But i dont think its worth looking at as a bug, when foreign object damage and sand would be way more an obvious issue to taking off from dusty areas.

DCS accomodates the best example of what we can achieve.
At the end its a great game, but its still a game. We cant simulate every single issue, especially until its been proven that it could or couldnt do something in real life.
If they delete that part of the simulation, and then an FA18 pilot turns up and says 'it can do it' its alot of work for nothing..

If any of the planes could land on grass or dusty/sandy areas, id expect it to be the marine ones.
But what do i know?

 

This was my point.. if the hornet can do it.. why not the viggen with large wheels, SU25T, SU33, harrier?.. Like i said.. I tested them out.. my point is if hornet can then its only an on and off switch for ED to make it available for other strong landing gear jets.. or remove it for hornet.. This was supposed to be a simple post until people started making it complicated.. Edit: Oh right it was you.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Vampiresquid

[pete_auau]

Question has  to be  asked  why are  users  trying  to land  and  take  off on  land  for,  thought  rwys   were  made for  take offs  and  landings

[StevanJ]

2 hours ago, Vampiresquid said:

This was my point.. if the hornet can do it.. why not the viggen with large wheels, SU25T, SU33, harrier?.. Like i said.. I tested them out.. my point is if hornet can then its only an on and off switch for ED to make it available for other strong landing gear jets.. or remove it for hornet.. This was supposed to be a simple post until people started making it complicated.. Edit: Oh right it was you.

 

Hmmm..

You asked this..

 

On 4/1/2021 at 12:40 AM, Vampiresquid said:

I dont know if this is meant to do like this.. but it can easily land in a nearby farp and rearm and take off.. heres a video.

 

https://youtu.be/zcBbBur52bQ

Then when you got a fair answer from a Mod- you argued and further created a discussion here.
 

On 4/1/2021 at 11:54 AM, Vampiresquid said:

Umm no other JET can do this.. I tested many other aircraft.. Su33, F14..L39. f16, jf17 The hornet is moving like its on tarmac... @davidzill@BIGNEWY... You really thought i would post this without thorough testing? If you try to land with those other jets u will break your landing gear.. also u cannot takeoff..

 

F14 cannot even taxi with afterburners cuz its stuck in the dirt.. some other light aircraft can start rolling with afterburners but get their  landing gear destroyed before even lifting off the ground.. Have you not experienced your jet getting stuck as soon as it gets off the taxiway/tarmac/runway..

 

Why does a Viggen with 5 wheels get stuck

 

Instead of going to the relevant threads and reporting them as bugs bringing the relevant evidence that other aircraft were wrong too, you carried on the discussion arguing still that the FA18 was wrong, thanking others who supported you, and arguing with those that didnt support you (me).

From ED's perspective- the problem you raise just isnt supported by anything, other than a report from you that 'others land on roads to evade fire'.
And even just spending 30 seconds typing 'viggen lands on grass' into google brings up this. Which support ED's image to why the viggen cant 'taxi on grass'. And until evidence comes out, that shows a Hornet having the same issue. You just have to let this go with the FA18.
As all i can find that shows an FA18 on ground is this video here.
If you want to start a bug report with the SU25, then go for it, and feel free to use the video i linked earlier.
 

Now, looking from your viewpoint, you could spend a little more time, and find pages like this.

But by just reading the article explains that this aircraft was damaged upon a heavy landing. Hence 'why its on grass'.. I doubt the FA18 would have been damaged in the same situation.

I do agree with you, in regards to the Harrier getting stuck on concrete, as i highlighted. But you ignored that and then continue to argue about the FA18 landing on hard ground.
So, Heres blue angels pilot Jerry Deren why the FA18 is different from the above mentioned planes.

 

Keys words being said that the landing 'is a controlled crash'.
Look at this discussion here.

Now no ones arguing with you that 'this jet can do this, and that jet can do that', but youre going to have to bring more evidence to a discussion than 'I dont know if this is meant to do like this..'
Between you and ED, ill go with ED. Im sure theyve done the research.

But if youd like to start a discussion over in the F-14 section, have this piece of evidence to support your argument. But know that the F14 is nearly 1/4th heavier than the FA18.

Instead of getting upset and pointing out that 'other aircraft cant do it', just spend a little time trying to research and support your own argument, and bring some sort of factual validation from another source.
There ARE other games, where an FA18 can land on grass and in the same game others cant, if youd like me to send you a video by DM, just let me know.
Otherwise if you'd like to bring some discussion to 'landing on grass' Just jump in here and carry on with the discussion.

Im for, and suggest making a concrete tile available for Farps.
Or make your own request in the wishlist, But if someone doesnt agree with you, you cant make it a personal vendetta.
Had you brought good evidence to the discussion, you may have changed my mind.

[Ahmed]

Deleted. No point.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Ahmed

[Vampiresquid]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:28 PM, StevanJ said:

Hmmm..

You asked this..

 

Then when you got a fair answer from a Mod- you argued and further created a discussion here.
 

Instead of going to the relevant threads and reporting them as bugs bringing the relevant evidence that other aircraft were wrong too, you carried on the discussion arguing still that the FA18 was wrong, thanking others who supported you, and arguing with those that didnt support you (me).

From ED's perspective- the problem you raise just isnt supported by anything, other than a report from you that 'others land on roads to evade fire'.
And even just spending 30 seconds typing 'viggen lands on grass' into google brings up this. Which support ED's image to why the viggen cant 'taxi on grass'. And until evidence comes out, that shows a Hornet having the same issue. You just have to let this go with the FA18.
As all i can find that shows an FA18 on ground is this video here.
If you want to start a bug report with the SU25, then go for it, and feel free to use the video i linked earlier.
 

Now, looking from your viewpoint, you could spend a little more time, and find pages like this.

But by just reading the article explains that this aircraft was damaged upon a heavy landing. Hence 'why its on grass'.. I doubt the FA18 would have been damaged in the same situation.

I do agree with you, in regards to the Harrier getting stuck on concrete, as i highlighted. But you ignored that and then continue to argue about the FA18 landing on hard ground.
So, Heres blue angels pilot Jerry Deren why the FA18 is different from the above mentioned planes.

 

Keys words being said that the landing 'is a controlled crash'.
Look at this discussion here.

Now no ones arguing with you that 'this jet can do this, and that jet can do that', but youre going to have to bring more evidence to a discussion than 'I dont know if this is meant to do like this..'
Between you and ED, ill go with ED. Im sure theyve done the research.

But if youd like to start a discussion over in the F-14 section, have this piece of evidence to support your argument. But know that the F14 is nearly 1/4th heavier than the FA18.

Instead of getting upset and pointing out that 'other aircraft cant do it', just spend a little time trying to research and support your own argument, and bring some sort of factual validation from another source.
There ARE other games, where an FA18 can land on grass and in the same game others cant, if youd like me to send you a video by DM, just let me know.
Otherwise if you'd like to bring some discussion to 'landing on grass' Just jump in here and carry on with the discussion.

Im for, and suggest making a concrete tile available for Farps.
Or make your own request in the wishlist, But if someone doesnt agree with you, you cant make it a personal vendetta.
Had you brought good evidence to the discussion, you may have changed my mind.

Neither was I upset with the hornet problem.. nor i disagreed with you.. If you watch my hornet video you can see how absurd it is for it to be able to do that.. My post was very simple.. for ED to look into it since other jets cannot do it.. I did not want Huge posts commenting about actual facts or what they can do in real life.. This was JUST about DCS not real life.. I am upset about why people like you make things complicated and not about the issue of hornets landing on ground.. I also sometimes use the hornet this way since other people use it and I take advantage too.. I reported this because ED themselves care about it.. What they do with this problem is up to them.. I only wanted them to acknowledge that this issue exists.. Man seriously look at your posts. no offence They belong in general chat.. or discussion forums..

Edited April 14, 2021 by Vampiresquid

[StevanJ]

Just now, Vampiresquid said:

Neither was I upset with the hornet problem.. nor i disagreed with you.. If you watch my hornet video you can see how absurd it is for it to be able to do that.. My post was very simple.. for ED to look into it since other jets cannot do it.. I did not want Huge posts commenting about actual facts or what they can do in real life.. This was JUST about DCS not real life.. I am upset about why people like you make things complicated and not about why hornet can do this.. I also sometimes use the hornet this way since other people use it and I take advantage too.. I reported this because ED themselves care about it.. What they do with this problem is up to them.. I only wanted them to acknowledge that this issue exists.. Man seriously look at your posts. no offence They belong in general chat.. or discussion forums..

Let it go man..

As the Mod has said 'You are on dry hard ground of course it can.'
It is not obsurd.

 

If a 737 (41,145kg) can take off from grass. An FA18 can take off from dry hard ground.

[Vampiresquid]

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

Let it go man..

As the Mod has said 'You are on dry hard ground of course it can.'
It is not obsurd.

 

If a 737 (41,145kg) can take off from grass. An FA18 can take off from dry hard ground.

Back to square one.. Viggen, Su33, Su25T, (They cant) etc etc etc..

[StevanJ]

Just now, Vampiresquid said:

Back to square one.. Viggen, Su33, Su25T, (They cant) etc etc etc..

Yes, Read the description in this video

"As he attempted to land, the aircraft took a sharp turn. The pilot tried to correct it but by that time the plane was under a 90 degree angle while still sporting significant speed. When the plane reached the grass, its right landing gear broke off and which forced the craft on its wing."

This is an argument AGAINST the Viggen landing on grass.
All the information ive found sounds like the viggens landing gear just isnt as strong as the FA18's.

And i said take this video and start a post in bug reports, 'add a track showing it cant be done in game'.
Do the same with the SU33 if you think it needs it, but i cant find any information in the SU33 landing gear, so i cant make an argument for that. And as the model ISNT hi fidelity i dont think youll find anyone that is bothered. But you should definitely try.
If youd like me to come support you, just send me a DM.

[Vampiresquid]

I think ill leave the post here as it is.. Hoping Bignewy already talked to the team.. not going deeper.. since its not a large issue but certainly unfair to leave the other aircrafts out of the capability.. but when i said hornet can land on any terrain i actually mean any terrain.. not just dry land either..

 

Heres a nice photo of the frogfoot that cant land on nearby farps or roadbases in dcs..(can land on the road but cannot turn cuz theres dirt on both sides of the road) just saying.. Su33 has bigger wheels and a tough landing gear too...anyways im done with the post for now.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Vampiresquid

[StevanJ]

1 minute ago, Vampiresquid said:

I think ill leave the post here as it is.. Hoping Bignewy already talked to the team.. not going deeper.. since its not a large issue but certainly unfair to leave the other aircrafts out of the capability.. but when i said hornet can land on any terrain i actually mean any terrain.. not just dry land either..

 

Heres a nice photo of the frogfoot that cant land on nearby farps or roadbases in dcs..(can land on the road but cannot turn cuz theres dirt on both sides of the road) just saying.. anyways im done with the post for now.

 

 

A big like from me!

[Ahmed]

I saw this that apparently reflects what is going on normally at public servers. I reckon it fits as an example of what is currently possible in the sim and how it gets exploited.

 

 

 

 

 

[StevanJ]

14 minutes ago, Ahmed said:

I saw this that apparently reflects what is going on normally at public servers. I reckon it fits as an example of what is currently possible in the sim and how it gets exploited.

 

 

 

 

 

This was before 2.7.
He's in an SU27 and also lands on a road.
 

 

Its important to notice how quickly he gets shot down. Its a poor strategy for taking on the enemy.
He's overwhelmingly vulnerable.

With that said and the move into 2.7, most airplanes can now take off from the ground.

It would be interested to see which maps allow which aircraft to take off from the ground and in which season.
It seems as thought soon- all of them might.

Do you fancy creating us a table to see which aircraft can and cant takeoff from which map?

[Vampiresquid]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:28 PM, Ahmed said:

I saw this that apparently reflects what is going on normally at public servers. I reckon it fits as an example of what is currently possible in the sim and how it gets exploited.

 

 

 

 

 

Once he stops on the dirt he wont be able to move let alone takeoff unless he gets on a road..Also if he doesnt stop and tries to takeoff on dirt he will destroy his jet.. f18 however can takeoff from anywhere.. and start rolling even if its stopped in dirt..

On 4/17/2021 at 4:50 PM, StevanJ said:

This was before 2.7.
He's in an SU27 and also lands on a road.
 

 

Its important to notice how quickly he gets shot down. Its a poor strategy for taking on the enemy.
He's overwhelmingly vulnerable.

With that said and the move into 2.7, most airplanes can now take off from the ground.

It would be interested to see which maps allow which aircraft to take off from the ground and in which season.
It seems as thought soon- all of them might.

Do you fancy creating us a table to see which aircraft can and cant takeoff from which map?

Interesting i didnt know they changed mechanics for aircraft on ground/dirt.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Vampiresquid

[StevanJ]

59 minutes ago, Vampiresquid said:

Once he stops on the dirt he wont be able to move let alone takeoff unless he gets on a road..Also if he doesnt stop and tries to takeoff on dirt he will destroy his jet.. f18 however can takeoff from anywhere.. and start rolling even if its stopped in dirt..

Interesting i didnt know they changed mechanics for aircraft on ground/dirt.

 

Hey, do you fancy making a table to see which aircraft can do what on which map?

[Vampiresquid]

1 hour ago, StevanJ said:

Hey, do you fancy making a table to see which aircraft can do what on which map?

Can confirm nothing has changed.. The F18 lands and takes off from dirt like nothing.. other aircraft gets their nose landing gear damaged or flip right over during a landing on dirt... There is also a lot of vibration and bumps and jerks the aircraft face on dirt.. the hornet is moving like its on smooth tarmac @BIGNEWY

Edited May 5, 2021 by Vampiresquid
Test confirmation..

[deathbysybian]

The F18 can taxi effortlessly through grass, mud, sand, anything.  It is nowhere in the realm of realistic.  However, I like being able to cheat and taxi across the lawn.

[StevanJ]

7 minutes ago, Vampiresquid said:

Can confirm nothing has changed.. The F18 lands and takes off from dirt like nothing.. other aircraft gets their nose landing gear damaged or flip right over during a landing on dirt... There is also a lot of vibration and bumps and jerks the aircraft face on dirt.. the hornet is moving like its on smooth tarmac @BIGNEWY

 

Sorry, thats not what i meant.
Im agreed that the aircraft are the way they are, i still dont think that an F-16 should be able to take off from grass, I only meant to create a reference for users, so that others can pick the correct airframe, for the job in hand if they land on this page.

I still dont think this is a bug, However if you feel aircraft should be able to take off from grass, maybe look towards going into the aircrafts subforum and adding it to a wishlist?