Need help choosing a HOTAS

[BastiScholz]

Hu guys, 

first comment here, so you see, i am pretty new to DCS. Have been flying a little on/off for years but now i feel, i need to commit again!

 

I got the X55 HOTAS here, which i honestly don´t like alot. Plastic, bugs, no more updates...

 

Still my favorite Plane is the A10c, which was my first. But i think i wanna move on to the F18 and F16 and definately on to the Apache <3. So now i am looking for a decent upgrade on my HOTAS and am willing to spend around 500€. Would be awesome, if you could make some suggestions, scince i am pretty new to the Market.

 

These i found so far, but still cant say i found the right one.

 

TM Warthog -> Should be cool with the A10, but what about the other planes? I heard alot about technical issues on this one. 

WinWing Orion -> Not really avalable, as it seems. It is a F18 replica, so what about flying the A10 with it? Are there enough bottons to map all the A10s functions?! Otherwise it seems to be a decent piece.

 

Leave your tips, please.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Oozler]

I can only comment on the TM Warthog as that is what I have but I can add that I have many modules (fast jet, WW2 and helos) for DCS and have never had a problem. The Warthog, as you know is based on the A-10 HOTAS, however the actual A-10 HOTAS incorporated an F-16 stick and an F-15 throttle quadrant as they did not invent anything new when they designed the A-10 in that regard. This means you are set for the A-10 and half way there for the F-16 and F-15. I fly the F-18 the most and it works great as far as I am concerned. There are many choices and some of the peeps here have used numerous of the choices so I also look forward to hearing others input as well. Personally, I am very happy with the TM Warthog but have to admit the Winwing super tauras/libra combination excites me as I fly the F-18 module so often. 

[dburne]

I absolutely love my setup:

VKB Gunfighter Pro L with Ultimate Grip.

Virpil CM3 Throttle.

MFG Crosswind Pedals.

[Lange_666]

9 hours ago, BastiScholz said:

TM Warthog -> Should be cool with the A10, but what about the other planes? I heard alot about technical issues on this one.

 

I would not look plane wise, that's just impossible to deal with it if you fly more different types. You can switch sticks (and then only for a few planes) but not throttles.

Set the controllers up like you like them.

 

My current setup:

TM Warthog where i replaced the original stick gimbal base (which just sucks!!!) with Virpil WarBRD base. Difference is night and day.

MFG Crosswind Pedals with hkeyg replacement pedals. I'm thinking about adding the damper mod....

Elgato XL Streamdeck for extra input, not really needed, just cool.

[BastiScholz]

21 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

 

I would not look plane wise, that's just impossible to deal with it if you fly more different types. You can switch sticks (and then only for a few planes) but not throttles.

Set the controllers up like you like them.

 

My current setup:

TM Warthog where i replaced the original stick gimbal base (which just sucks!!!) with Virpil WarBRD base. Difference is night and day.

MFG Crosswind Pedals with hkeyg replacement pedals. I'm thinking about adding the damper mod....

Elgato XL Streamdeck for extra input, not really needed, just cool.

Jea, thats what i am hearing alot lately. Change to WarBRD Base. 

Just threw the rest of the Virpil-Stuff together. Would be 750€+Taxes. Thats way too much for me, i guess.

So jea, maybe i roll with the Warthog and change the Base after it wears out. 

 

TY so far!

[Lange_666]

Biggest advantage of the Virpil WarBRD base, besides the supersmooth gimbal movement is the fact that you can let the TM software still think it has TM gear attached. You can then keep working with whatever profiles you have made without the need to switch to something else.

[BastiScholz]

1 minute ago, Lange_666 said:

Biggest advantage of the Virpil WarBRD base, besides the supersmooth gimbal movement is the fact that you can let the TM software still think it has TM gear attached. You can then keep working with whatever profiles you have made without the need to switch to something else.

Uhhh, thats super smooth, ty!

[rob10]

6 hours ago, BastiScholz said:

Jea, thats what i am hearing alot lately. Change to WarBRD Base. 

Just threw the rest of the Virpil-Stuff together. Would be 750€+Taxes. Thats way too much for me, i guess.

So jea, maybe i roll with the Warthog and change the Base after it wears out. 

 

TY so far!

If you go for the TMWH make sure you plan some funds to replace the TDC slew right away (see Deltasim upgrade).  And depending on your use/preferences you may also need to get a softer (or harder) spring that may set you back another $50.

The TMWH was a great upgrade from my CH setup when I got and I was thrilled with it for quite a while.  I've moved on to the WarBRD base (which is another big step up) using the WH F18 grip and recently the WW Orion throttle (which I haven't had time to do more than set up yet ) but also seems like a big jump up and having experienced them I wouldn't go back to my full TMWH setup unless I had no choice.

[Fri13]

For a budget of 500 € there is mainly one option I see for You, and it is VKB NXT. 

 

It is a module system that can later be extended with additional side modules as example some are these below:

 

 

And then you can pair the joystick (the base + grip) with up coming VKB throttle that is compatible with it (IIRC) to be connected to side, but you anyways want to have it separately next to your left leg:

 

 

 

 

The Joystick costs right now in Europe about 185 € + shipping. 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-nxt/

 

And the basic variant of the throttle will be 200 €, meaning it is a tilting one with mechanical detents. That is the low-end option. 

The middle option is a tilting throttle + digital detents (electro-magnetics, configurable in-flight) that will cost somewhere 300-350 €. 

And then their top option is a sliding/rail throttle + digital detents and it will be 400-450 € option. 

 

Because VKB wants to get away from legacy mechanical detents, they offer the basic variant for so cheap.

 

So in total you can get about 400-450 € the joystick + throttle and totally far better than you can get from Thrustmaster or anyone else.

You need to jump up to to much higher price range if you want better, and then we are talking about 450-550 € for joystick + 400-500 € for a throttle, so in total about 800-900 €. 

And if you want to fly helicopters, you really want to get a pedals. And best there are is VKB T-rudders, they lack toe brakes (you can get one if you want via software) but you don't need them. So with throttle + joystick + pedals you would talk about 600 € price range in total. You can not get any better from anywhere for price. 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Fri13

[Lange_666]

11 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

My current setup:

TM Warthog where i replaced the original stick gimbal base (which just sucks!!!) with Virpil WarBRD base. Difference is night and day.

MFG Crosswind Pedals with hkeyg replacement pedals. I'm thinking about adding the damper mod....

Elgato XL Streamdeck for extra input, not really needed, just cool.

 

Ah yeah, forgot about the slew upgrade. I changed the original horrible nipple too.

 

3 hours ago, rob10 said:

If you go for the TMWH make sure you plan some funds to replace the TDC slew right away (see Deltasim upgrade).

 

[BastiScholz]

16 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

 

Ah yeah, forgot about the slew upgrade. I changed the original horrible nipple too.

 

 

Hey guys, lol I am starting to see where this goes. Let me do the math.

 

470 Warthog (holy smokes, that's alot atm)

250 WarBRD Upgrade

50 Slew upgrade

 

Total: 770 Euro for a nice TMWH. Maybe I should just go Virpil, right from the Start. What do you think? 

[Oceandar]

I would go for what Fri13 suggested.

[Lange_666]

Or be satisfied with the original stock TM gimbal (many seem to do, probably because they don't know any better and never felt a real smooth operating gimbal) and save that WarBRD upgrade. Everyone's mileage varies...

[VpR81]

Imo, the Warthog is a solid entry HOTAS. The biggest advantage when buying the complete set is, that you get a decent throttle and a (imo) very good grip for a moderate price (well not at the moment obviously). At least the grips are better than every single grip Virpil is offering. And i've had the opportunity to test one of my friends VKB sticks. Can't speak for the internals, but the touch of the grips itself and button press is way better with TM imo. The MCG Ultimate may be better, but the grips i tested felt not as good as both of the TM grips, especially button pressing/response. The base is a different story, but you can always switch to a Virpil base later on and keep the rest of the HOTAS. The Warthogs base technology is outdated, the throttle levers are plastic and the slew control is crap. BUT, before i switched to something high class and significant more expensive (WinWing throttle, Virpil bases, Realsimulator grip) my Warthog HOTAS ran for several years, absolutely flawless without the slightes issue. The base is catching dust, but i never had stiction (regreased it from time to time), the original Warthog grip is still in use sometimes and runs perfectly, my throttle still runs like new in one of my friends' setup. Never any issues. Another friends Warthog is one of the early models, he purchased it back when the Warthog was released. Besides the stiction issue wich he solved with sandpaper and regular regreasing, he NEVER had any issues with his model. No boards bricked, no buttons failing, throttle friction control is still good - nothing. For more than a decade. So, you're not realy doing something wrong with the Warthog. It's just the price that is a pain in the a** at the moment... I payed roughly 350,-€ for the HOTAS set back then and had 2 years of extra warranty....

 

Cheers

Edited April 12, 2021 by VpR81

[dburne]

IMHO - the VKB Ultimate Grip is indeed the ultimate in grips.

I love VKB for their sticks and grips, and love Virpil for their throttle with the new CM3.

So I am happy to support both companies.

Edited April 12, 2021 by dburne

[BastiScholz]

38 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

Imo, the Warthog is a solid entry HOTAS. The biggest advantage when buying the complete set is, that you get a decent throttle and a (imo) very good grip for a moderate price (well not at the moment obviously). At least the grips are better than every single grip Virpil is offering. And i've had the opportunity to test one of my friends VKB sticks. Can't speak for the internals, but the touch of the grips itself and button press is way better with TM imo. The MCG Ultimate may be better, but the grips i tested felt not as good as both of the TM grips, especially button pressing/response. The base is a different story, but you can always switch to a Virpil base later on and keep the rest of the HOTAS. The Warthogs base technology is outdated, the throttle levers are plastic and the slew control is crap. BUT, before i switched to something high class and significant more expensive (WinWing throttle, Virpil bases, Realsimulator grip) my Warthog HOTAS ran for several years, absolutely flawless without the slightes issue. The base is catching dust, but i never had stiction (regreased it from time to time), the original Warthog grip is still in use sometimes and runs perfectly, my throttle still runs like new in one of my friends' setup. Never any issues. Another friends Warthog is one of the early models, he purchased it back when the Warthog was released. Besides the stiction issue wich he solved with sandpaper and regular regreasing, he NEVER had any issues with it's model. No boards bricked, no buttons failing, throttle friction control is still good - nothing. For more than a decade. So, you're not realy doing something wrong with the Warthog. It's just the price that is a pain in the a** at the moment... I payed roughly 350,-€ for the HOTAS set back then and had 2 years of extra warranty....

 

Cheers

 

This sounds very good to me, ty mate. I just ordered the TMWH on amazon. I will start there and see where it will take me. I still love the fact, that it is a copy of the real A10-HOTAS.

 

Thank you all, i feel much better now with my decicion. You guys helped me alot!

 

Cheers