KA-50 Project

[crazysundog]

For DCS: Black Shark, XP is the recommended OS, but it will run on Vista as well. However, very large mission will not be playable on Vista due to inefficient ways it handles data compared to XP. In fact, we will probably be releasing a second, 100 mission campaign separately that is XP-only due to the size of the missions. Hopefully this Vista issue will be resolved in the next Vista service pack.

 

:crazy: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt??? Thank you very much for that bit of info Wags!!

 

 

I would like to use this computer to:

1. -run DCS:BS (which apparently should happen on XP)

2. -run FSX:A and Xplane 9 (for the navigation flying and flight dynamics, respectively)

3. -run a Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player for my home theatre.

 

So, my next question would be: Does XP support DX-10?? If not, can I run both XP and Vista on one computer?(like on different HDD's?)

 

:helpsmilie:

[-Skipper-]

Yes, interesting. Most games with large textures and files run faster on my Vista64 bit or at least less choppier.

 

crazysundog, you can have installed both parallel, XP and Vista. It's recommended to put them on 2 partitions, not neccessarily 2 HDDs and you have to install XP previous to your Vista-Installation, IIRC.

 

There was a project to make DX10 run on XP, but it's not really working very good right now. But DX10 is not really a big argument for Vista, as the differences are pretty minor in most areas.

[-sulan-]

For DCS: Black Shark, XP is the recommended OS, but it will run on Vista as well. However, very large mission will not be playable on Vista due to inefficient ways it handles data compared to XP. In fact, we will probably be releasing a second, 100 mission campaign separately that is XP-only due to the size of the missions. Hopefully this Vista issue will be resolved in the next Vista service pack.

 

Interesting, thanks alot for the info!! :thumbup:

XP it is then :) A 100 mission campaign sounds nice!! I suppose that means 100 "potential" missions as opposed to 100 stages of the campaign? Or am I simply confused about the campaign system.. :P

 

It's more than that.

 

Consider Microsoft would allow users only to install Windows on PCs, that they sell in Microsoft-Shops, with a very limited range of hardware available and selling this in a fency case for at least double the normal hardware-price. If they'd then claim their windows runs great on the little hardware-range they sell, people would laugh at their faces and it would be flooded with class-action lawsuits and stuff. Just consider how official lawsuits were opened, because M$ offered their own media-player included into windows, so you CAN have everything out of one hand. When it was recently made possible to install MacOS on any PC by a little dongle for a few bucks, Macintosh started a lawsuit against the developer and even was confirmed, that it is not legal to use that trick.

 

For some odd reason people accept all that with Apple gratefully and praise the monopoly as a fortune to be able to get everything out of one hand - and they're even proud of that touch of rebellion against the M$-monopoly.... :huh:

 

 

Well, everybody has to make his own decision and as it was said, I think we're all grown up and we agree that we can disagree. But for me Apple is the way to go if you don't know enough about hardware to get a PC and too much to be satisfied with a console. :P

 

I wish it was'nt so (because PC's are alot cheaper) and I don't want to be a mac-fanboy, but the fact is that for what I do (sound-design and music production) the mac is the best bang for the buck.

I tried getting an XP-based system running Nuendo and a Motu audio-interface to work once (about a year ago), after a weekend of driver-related frustration it kinda worked, but I got paranoid from all the crashes. :P

It's just not worth the hassle and my time to work on a PC, I'm happy with gaming and typing this on my PC though.

I'm not a mac fanboy, I just use whatever works best for me.. :)

 

(sorry for the OT)

[-Skipper-]

I wish it was'nt so (because PC's are alot cheaper) and I don't want to be a mac-fanboy, but the fact is that for what I do (sound-design and music production) the mac is the best bang for the buck.

I tried getting an XP-based system running Nuendo and a Motu audio-interface to work once (about a year ago), after a weekend of driver-related frustration it kinda worked, but I got paranoid from all the crashes. :P

It's just not worth the hassle and my time to work on a PC, I'm happy with gaming and typing this on my PC though.

I'm not a mac fanboy, I just use whatever works best for me.. :)

 

(sorry for the OT)

 

Not at all a fanboy. It's exactly what I said. You don't have driver issues with Macs and you don't need to care about anything related to hardware- and software-issues. But that's not because MacOS is safer or better, but because the OS is optimized for the little range of hardware used.

And no need to defend the programs either. There are a lot of professional programs available for the Mac, no doubt about that. Honestly, if I had to make up my own office with a lot of different people with unknown hardware and software knowledge, I'd use Macs for them, too.

But especially in the music business, I know first hand from a close friend, who even made music for soundtracks and games. And he said that it took him several month to get the right software-bundle together. But it costs about 35% the price of the Mac-Package. I don't know what hard and software he uses, but he has all sort of equipment and equalizers plugged into his PC. :music_walkman:

[crazysundog]

Thanks a bunch for all the info guys... I think I'm gonna have to go with both OS.

 

I'm really glad Wags chimed in when he did!!

[Wags]

Interesting, thanks alot for the info!! :thumbup:

XP it is then :) A 100 mission campaign sounds nice!! I suppose that means 100 "potential" missions as opposed to 100 stages of the campaign? Or am I simply confused about the campaign system.. :P (sorry for the OT)

 

100 possible missions with randoms over 26 stages.

[-sulan-]

100 possible missions with randoms over 26 stages.

 

I see, thx! Can't wait to try the new campaign system, seams very nice me thinks!! :)

I believe it will add alot more replayability, as well as more "user impact" on the campaign. :pilotfly:

[Rhino4]

Twenty-six stages! Every stage with four or more outcomes! Soooooo excited!! That will really add to replayability with the campaigns. Lockon's campaigns were a one-time go-through for me and then I never bothered with them again. Hopefully I'll have more fun exploring in the new campaign system.

[rattler]

Heh, spitting on M$ but praising Macs. It would deserve an extra thread to name all the irony contained in this.

 

Well, anyway: Some features of Creatives EAX don't work with Vista. That doesn't mean you can't use them or benefit of the other features. Infact in the meanwhile, the drivers are as good as for XP and you won't notice the few effects, because these are only audible in a few Direct-X applications.

So, between a "400 - 700 dollars ... sound card with EAX capibility" you "...can't use..." and the actual situation it's a looooong way.

 

I guess you don't know how to use a Creative sound card if you can't achieve EAX sound with a surround system or even 2.1 with powered sub woofer. I have never heard of anyone complaining they never had EAX sound till, Vista and a driver was put together for the top end card but still did not function well.

[-Skipper-]

Is it possible that you mix up THX and EAX? You don't need a 5.1 or even 2.1 system to benefit from EAX-features. EAX just adds effects like echo, distortion, environmental and other effects to make sounds, especially in games more realistic. And besides that, it's actually one of the strongest point of the X-FI series, that it can simulate "surround"-sound on a 2.0 Headset.

 

You do have somewhat EAX-effects with the latest drivers and VistaSP1 - it's just rather a workaround and you don't have full support of all features. That's all. It surely doesn't mean you can't run an X-FI with Vista, as you posted before. I guess OpenAL will win the race after all, if Windows7 won't support DirectSound and DirectSound3D either and Creative keeps blocking the working drivers....

 

Anyway, I think you shouldn't take this all that personal. If you have some point, I'll gladly discuss it with you, even change my mind, if you show me I'm wrong. It should just be a little more substantial than posting what you read.

[RedTiger]

It's more than that.

 

Consider Microsoft would allow users only to install Windows on PCs, that they sell in Microsoft-Shops, with a very limited range of hardware available and selling this in a fency case for at least double the normal hardware-price. If they'd then claim their windows runs great on the little hardware-range they sell, people would laugh at their faces and it would be flooded with class-action lawsuits and stuff. Just consider how official lawsuits were opened, because M$ offered their own media-player included into windows, so you CAN have everything out of one hand. When it was recently made possible to install MacOS on any PC by a little dongle for a few bucks, Macintosh started a lawsuit against the developer and even was confirmed, that it is not legal to use that trick.

 

For some odd reason people accept all that with Apple gratefully and praise the monopoly as a fortune to be able to get everything out of one hand - and they're even proud of that touch of rebellion against the M$-monopoly.... :huh:

 

 

Well, everybody has to make his own decision and as it was said, I think we're all grown up and we agree that we can disagree. But for me Apple is the way to go if you don't know enough about hardware to get a PC and too much to be satisfied with a console. :P

 

You are right, but I tend not to argue that angle because I'm a firm believer in people's right to waste their money. ;) To me arguing that point is like trying to argue the definition of art. If people wanna buy computers at premium prices just because they look like they came from a fashion boutique or some perceived superiority or coolness over the mainstream, let them. As you stated elsewhere, there are also legitamate reasons for using Macs.

Edited September 15, 2008 by RedTiger

[-Skipper-]

You are right, but I tend not to argue that angle because I'm a firm believer in people's right to waste their money. ;) To me arguing that point is like trying to argue the definition of art. If people wanna buy computers at premium prices just because they look like they came from a fashion boutique or some perceived superiority or coolness over the mainstream, let them. As you stated elsewhere, there are also legitamate reasons for using Macs.

 

 

Of course!

 

Everybody has to make up his own mind and there are a couple of valid reasons for either choice. I think -sulan- just showed, that you can post your own experiences without starting a fanboy-war. He states his experiences, but doesn't put it as the definite wisdom or general rule.

[rattler]

Is it possible that you mix up THX and EAX? You don't need a 5.1 or even 2.1 system to benefit from EAX-features. EAX just adds effects like echo, distortion, environmental and other effects to make sounds, especially in games more realistic. And besides that, it's actually one of the strongest point of the X-FI series, that it can simulate "surround"-sound on a 2.0 Headset.

 

You do have somewhat EAX-effects with the latest drivers and VistaSP1 - it's just rather a workaround and you don't have full support of all features. That's all. It surely doesn't mean you can't run an X-FI with Vista, as you posted before. I guess OpenAL will win the race after all, if Windows7 won't support DirectSound and DirectSound3D either and Creative keeps blocking the working drivers....

 

Anyway, I think you shouldn't take this all that personal. If you have some point, I'll gladly discuss it with you, even change my mind, if you show me I'm wrong. It should just be a little more substantial than posting what you read.

 

Yes I do agree about being more of a discussion. I have one of the mid-range sound cards which is not supported by Creative. I know what I have with XP but in all fairness I have not heard either the original sound or a Creative sound card with Vista. I just don't bother with Vista because for gaming it does not do a whole lot for me. With Wags information it just strengthens my support for XP. Now windows7 as an OS will be very interesting to see what it can do. If Vista was the test bed then Windows 7 should be a much better OS , fingures crossed. Yes all will come out with some bugs but Vista was more than bugs, so if they learned anything from Vista, Windows 7 should be a good OS. Cheers.

[-Skipper-]

Yes I do agree about being more of a discussion. I have one of the mid-range sound cards which is not supported by Creative. I know what I have with XP but in all fairness I have not heard either the original sound or a Creative sound card with Vista. I just don't bother with Vista because for gaming it does not do a whole lot for me. With Wags information it just strengthens my support for XP. Now windows7 as an OS will be very interesting to see what it can do. If Vista was the test bed then Windows 7 should be a much better OS , fingures crossed. Yes all will come out with some bugs but Vista was more than bugs, so if they learned anything from Vista, Windows 7 should be a good OS. Cheers.

 

Well, I wish I could share your optimism. Vista is based on XP with a few additional features to optimize workflow and increased userfriendlyness (e.g. the undo function for basically anything, including saving, deleting or overwriting stuff), etc.

Win7 will most likely bring a new fileformat, a new memory and process-handling, a new DirectX and an integrated rights media player, together with a bunch of other hardware- and software features. IMHO it's a bit early to think that these all new features will make the next windows safer, more compatible or usable for the general gamer. Especially since DirectSound is more or less abandoned and you won't have full EAX-support in Windows7 either. :noexpression:

[rattler]

Well, I wish I could share your optimism. Vista is based on XP with a few additional features to optimize workflow and increased userfriendlyness (e.g. the undo function for basically anything, including saving, deleting or overwriting stuff), etc.

Win7 will most likely bring a new fileformat, a new memory and process-handling, a new DirectX and an integrated rights media player, together with a bunch of other hardware- and software features. IMHO it's a bit early to think that these all new features will make the next windows safer, more compatible or usable for the general gamer. Especially since DirectSound is more or less abandoned and you won't have full EAX-support in Windows7 either. :noexpression:

 

Ya. I hear you. I think they are trying hard to get rid of third party software. Just seems that way I suppose. I was hoping that they would do something about the sound that would allow support for EAX, great in games. Oh music also. I just don't understand why they fooled around with the sound they had. Great for Companies and the general user, sometimes you have to wonder what generates some of their features. Safer maybe I think 3rd party can do a better job so why not let them instead of wasting resource that could be used on more useful features. Oh well wait and see.

[-sulan-]

I think it'd be very nice if the trend turned towards more games being available for multiple platforms, Linux in particular..

[hitman]

:crazy: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt??? Thank you very much for that bit of info Wags!!

 

 

I would like to use this computer to:

1. -run DCS:BS (which apparently should happen on XP)

2. -run FSX:A and Xplane 9 (for the navigation flying and flight dynamics, respectively)

3. -run a Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player for my home theatre.

 

So, my next question would be: Does XP support DX-10?? If not, can I run both XP and Vista on one computer?(like on different HDD's?)

 

:helpsmilie:

 

DX10 was designed strictly around Vista and is highly integrated into the o/s. Any kind of Dx10 rips you may be able to download would be crap at best, and AFAIK, wouldnt be even possible since the architecture of Xp wont really allow it. Dx10 is far different from its DX predecessors. You can always dual boot...it will take a bit of time to sort everything out though..

[rattler]

DX10 was designed strictly around Vista and is highly integrated into the o/s. Any kind of Dx10 rips you may be able to download would be crap at best, and AFAIK, wouldnt be even possible since the architecture of Xp wont really allow it. Dx10 is far different from its DX predecessors. You can always dual boot...it will take a bit of time to sort everything out though..

 

Second hand info but from what I have read there is not much difference in dx9c and dx10 as far as what your eye is going to see so why worry about dx10.

[hitman]

There is a HUGE difference between the 2 versions. Most of it is perceptual, not visual. You have motion blur as well as shock wave effects. Its more environmental than anything else.

[rattler]

There is a HUGE difference between the 2 versions. Most of it is perceptual, not visual. You have motion blur as well as shock wave effects. Its more environmental than anything else.

 

Ok hitman, thanks for the info. Sounds nice.

[DarkWanderer]

There is a HUGE difference between the 2 versions. Most of it is perceptual, not visual. You have motion blur as well as shock wave effects. Its more environmental than anything else.

Not only perception...

The advantages of DX10 (the ones that can be applied to LO/DCS engine), coming from specifications, are at least:

1.Less CPU usage with same effects.

2.PS4.0/VS3.0 (IIRC) implementations.

3.More customizable pipeline - that is, no more incompatibilities between heat haze and AA.

4.Guaranteed full support of all features and abslolutely the same picture on any card that supports DX10.

5.Elimination of "Device lost" event - no more impressionist art after Alt+tab

 

A more extensive description can be seen here.

 

Motion blur can be created in DX9 also, BTW.

Edited September 17, 2008 by DarkWanderer

[-Skipper-]

Don't misinform others if you don't know it yourself...

The advantages of DX10 (the ones that can be applied to LO/DCS), coming from specifications, are:

1.Less CPU usage with same effects.

2.PS4.0/VS3.0 (IIRC) implementations.

3.More customizable pipeline - that is, no more incompatibilities between heat haze and AA.

4.Guaranteed full support of all features on any card that supports DX10.

A more extensive description can be seen here.

 

That's correct. Motion-Blur and shockwave-effects are no DX10 features. They may work better with DX10 in some games, but that's not what DX does. DX is a routine that "translates" between software and hardware. It makes it easier to program effects, to ease programming and makes it possible to use effects with less programming effort.

DX10 is an optimized version of DX9, but it does not invent DX new. It speeds up many processes known from DX9, adds a few and supports new graphics-cards better, but it also drops some features from older DX versions and featueres supported on older hardware.

Technically there is no reason why DX10 should not be able to run with any other Windows version.

[Weta43]

Perhaps other than Microsofts desire to get you to upgrade to an unpopular, resource hungry OS that is selling slower than MS had hoped.

[diveplane]

Perhaps other than Microsofts desire to get you to upgrade to an unpopular, resource hungry OS that is selling slower than MS had hoped.

 

i agree am not using win vista anytime soon.

[rattler]

Well again by reading in the posts, on a lot of flight sim forums, Vista is not gamer friendly and a lot of gamers have put XP back on there system as the OS. Now this is not from me but from forums that I have read, most forums pertaining to flight simulation, the only thing I am interested in. Don't play any other form of sim. Actually LOFC is my main and once in a while I fly Falcon 4 Af but the graphics are terrible. Lockon has come a long way thanks to community modders. Getting to look better every day. BS should be really nice but I think you will have to do a lot of bookwork in order to fly it right and manual must be getting bigger every day as they add different things to the flight model. You don't get that much realisum unless you study. Should be a cool sim though.