Landing and flight path marker in 1.02

[Starlight]

Hi,

Since I've recently installed patch 1.02 I've been "grounded" for a while, I've flown short missions, most were to test textures and other things... the problem is that I made my first landings with LO 1.02 just these days...

 

I have to point out one thing before telling my problem: I always landed without problems in LockOn 1.00, 1.01, Falcon 4.0 and with any other flight sim I played with. With Lockon I also made an arrested landing with a SU-33 at my very first attempt.

 

Then, I tried some landings with LockOn 1.02 and I had quite a hard time to land all planes. I had to do several attempts and I noticed some things

 

- The behaviour of many aircraft below 130 knots seems very strange. Since AFAIK the Eagle lands at 120-130 knots and the A-10 at a much slower speed, so I don't understand how can I make a realistic landing.

- The Flight path marker (FPM) seems to fail at very slow speeds. To land I've been taught to place the FPM at the start of the runway, to fly right there... well it doesn't seem to work anymore... I've got the Eagle at 3-5° descent, FPM on the end of the runway, speed about 140-160 nm, and when I go below 140 for the final touchdown, the aircraft starts to fall to the ground like a brick... and it crashes some hundred feet before the runway!

 

Now I managed to land with Lockon patched @ 1.02 but I don't feel the aircraft behave in a very realistic way at such slow speeds. Am I the only one to experience such a problem? Or is it just some "rust" on my hands?

[britgliderpilot]

Re: Landing and flight path marker in 1.02

 

I'd expect it to be rust . . . .

 

 

If an aircraft is designed to touch down at 130 knots, it doesn't mean it is capable of flying normally at that speed. I'd just fly that little bit faster, and cut the throttle at the flare.

 

I tend to decelerate as I'm coming down the glidepath anyway - makes life a lot easier than flying slow speed all the way.

[Starlight]

Re: Landing and flight path marker in 1.02

 

I'd expect it to be rust . . . .

If an aircraft is designed to touch down at 130 knots, it doesn't mean it is capable of flying normally at that speed. I'd just fly that little bit faster, and cut the throttle at the flare.

I tend to decelerate as I'm coming down the glidepath anyway - makes life a lot easier than flying slow speed all the way.

 

The problem is that the AI flies the F-15 straight down its path at about 126-130 knots. Do the same with a human pilot and even placing the FPM on the runway your aircraft will fall short of it. I managed to land at about 140-150+ knots, with a technique which was much more similar to that used to bring down cargo a/c in tricky situations or fighters at airshows.... not the kind of landing typical of the F-15 and of any other fighter SOP (standard operating procedure).

And, ok if the F-15 has problems at 120-130.... but what about the A-10?

And again, the FPM imho has definitely some problems. In Falcon 4 I used it all the way down to the runway (except the final flare) and it definitely worked every time!

[GGTharos]

It's not the FPM that has problems, it's the position of the pilot's head that's at fault - this is fixed in 1.1

[169th_Cobra]

GGTharos is right.

 

The flight path vector is working fine. Tthe problem is it can only show you relavant information so long as it is within the boundaries of the HUD.If you fly too slow and the flight path vector drops below the bottom edge of the HUD it will only show you the fpv on the bottom edge and it is no longer relevant.)

 

To land at the speeds you are talking about you need to be in a light aircraft and use visual cues outside to manually pick your aiming point. Hard to do as this is also below the nose of the aircraft, but it can be done.

 

Otherwise just fly faster and the FPV will be giving you relevant information again. This is the easiest option of the two. (dont fly less than 160kts and then as you come over the fence close the throttle to touchdown around 150kts)

 

Hope that helps.

[Tracker]

I've experienced this as well, the FPM is well below the nose of the A/C.

 

Interestingly however (as opposed to most aircraft) adding flaps will lower the nose in the F15C. Try landing full flaps and see if it improves the final:rolleyes:

 

:cool:

[Starlight]

I always land with brakes and flaps fully deployed as it happens in real world, due to the high thrust of the F100 engines (PS: the eagle should have more brake positions instead of just "on" and "off")

This was an old thread, since then I re-learned to land in LockOn, but after a few tests, it seems that this problem still exists, at least IMHO.

 

The problem is that to land without problems with the F-15 you must fly the final approach at more than 150 knots and land at about 135-140, depending on load (fuel+stores). As far as I know the real Eagle lands between 120 and 130 knots, and it's also considered a fast landing aircraft, like the F-117 for example (this is why early F-117 pilots took a ride on the F-15). Even the A-10 in LockOn lands at 120-130 knots.

 

So basically the landing speed in LockOn seems quite exaggerated at least for US aircraft.

 

The further problem is that below these speeds the FPM seems not to work properly. It's not just a matter of goin' out of the HUD, that happens also if you fly with the "front view without cockpit". Simply put the FPM, which basically plots a virtual line where your aircraft should go, behaves in a strange way and also your aircraft (the F-15) at about 125 knots calls the "minimum speed warning" and then falls towards the ground. But if you watch outside views, you'll see that AI F-15s fly the very final leg at 126 knots, that AFAIK is the correct speed. Try this with your own Eagle and if you're lucky you'll cut the fence at the end of the runway.

 

Now I have managed to land with all aircraft in LockOn, I also landed with a crippled A-10, but the problem is that IMHO the final approach is not very realistic if compared to other sims, Falcon 4 for example.

[coldcrew]

don't land with airbrakes in lomac, your crash rate will go high if you land with brakes. I've noticed this even on the sturdy a-10 which can land anywhere from 170-120knts. I always retract my brakes before I touchdown in lomac.

 

As for landing in lomac in general I'm surprised you are even having problems with it. All the planes are easy to land on a runway. Very easy, I'll say you are just landing at a speed that is too slow.. with airbrakes on. Also remember for the russian aircraft their speed indicators may be in km not knts

[Starlight]

don't land with airbrakes in lomac, your crash rate will go high if you land with brakes. I've noticed this even on the sturdy a-10 which can land anywhere from 170-120knts. I always retract my brakes before I touchdown in lomac.

 

As for landing in lomac in general I'm surprised you are even having problems with it. All the planes are easy to land on a runway. Very easy, I'll say you are just landing at a speed that is too slow.. with airbrakes on. Also remember for the russian aircraft their speed indicators may be in km not knts

 

I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm just saying it's not realistic.

When I first started this thread it was some time that I didn't land with Lomac, and I applied the Falcon 4 technique, which AFAIK is one of the most realistic. And I crashed several times, until I understood it wasn't my fault, it was just the landing speed that was too low for Lomac standards. Landing at 150-160 knots with the A-10 is simply as realistic as flying with unlimited weapons.

Just as an hystorical note, the most difficult sim to land with IMHO was F-16 Combat Pilot, for Amiga. You had to be very careful, and often there was "undercarriage damage" or the personnel reporting "heavy landing". But maybe it was just because I was a kid, and instead of a Hotas I had a simple joystick, which was more suited to arcade games...

[coldcrew]

well it's not a secret that lomac landings are scripted, other than the high speed landings there isn't much to talk about. In 1.1 with the advanced flight models landings are more realistic. It could explain why landing planes without the AFM aren't.

[GGTharos]

I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm just saying it's not realistic.

When I first started this thread it was some time that I didn't land with Lomac, and I applied the Falcon 4 technique, which AFAIK is one of the most realistic. And I crashed several times, until I understood it wasn't my fault, it was just the landing speed that was too low for Lomac standards. Landing at 150-160 knots with the A-10 is simply as realistic as flying with unlimited weapons.

Just as an hystorical note, the most difficult sim to land with IMHO was F-16 Combat Pilot, for Amiga. You had to be very careful, and often there was "undercarriage damage" or the personnel reporting "heavy landing". But maybe it was just because I was a kid, and instead of a Hotas I had a simple joystick, which was more suited to arcade games...

 

Hehe, I -remember- that. I had to keep an eye on the FPS gauge all the time and time it just right so you'd be coming down at 5-6FPS sink rate after your flare (12 before).

 

In LOMAC I land just about everything at under 130kts, often my touch-down speed is closer to 120 or 110.

[Ironhand]

 

(snipped)

 

- The behaviour of many aircraft below 130 knots seems very strange. Since AFAIK the Eagle lands at 120-130 knots and the A-10 at a much slower speed, so I don't understand how can I make a realistic landing.

- The Flight path marker (FPM) seems to fail at very slow speeds...

 

(snipped)

 

Now I managed to land with Lockon patched @ 1.02 but I don't feel the aircraft behave in a very realistic way at such slow speeds. Am I the only one to experience such a problem? Or is it just some "rust" on my hands?

 

I can't comment on the Eagle because I've only been in it's cockpit once. But, depending on it's weight, I've definitely landed the A-10 at speeds below 120-130 knots with the FPM sitting exactly where it should be. The last time was earlier this evening. I still had most of a fuel load--no weapons--and landed with the airspeed pegged at 100 knots and the FPM locked on the end of the runway. My wheels hit just where the FPM said they would. Of course, Betty complains for awhile when you land at those speeds.

 

Rich