4870X2 vs GTX280

[stealthtemplates]

NOT to start an ATI vs NVIDIA war here.

But One of Nvidia credo you will definitely see in lots of games

“The Way It's was Meant to be Played”

Lots of developers prefer nvidia over ATI. Not because ATI just brought this new card out that all will change anytime soon. Most games, Crysis, Battlefield series, World in Conflict, so many more... There is a reason why you see the nvidia logo at the start of all these games. They are partners. Not that the ATI is bad product. But with Nvidia You can’t go wrong. I am extremely very happy with my GTX280. I’ve been an Nvidia fan all my tech life. Not going to change anytime soon. Although I always try to keep an open mind. I have seen in the past ATI users not even able to start BF2 without having to do some manual tweaking. In my opinion most games are more optimize for Nvidia then ATI. But who knows what the future holds…It’s a never ending battle. But that battle is one I appreciate to see, as Intel vs AMD, since without competition there’s only monopoly and that equals higher prices for the consumer.

They are both good products. Go with either, I’m sure you will be happy.

 

 

Cheers

 

You do realise that whole thing is just marketing right?

Nvidia pays the companies to use their logo so they can sell products, and in many cases the game runs better on ATI based cards which is kind of ironic.

 

Its not just ATI cards that have the problems in games, its more Nvidia actually. But thats just completely random and can happen to anyone on any videocard.

[Kuky]

NO, those are 24/7, that's why they call it a Prime stable database. They run the stress test for 10+ hours because that is what they are using 24/7. TRUST me these guys these things much higher for "non 24/7 runs".... No one runs 10+ hours Prime if they are not planning on using it daily that's the whole point.

 

No they don't... have you seen how they test these on such high overclocks? They don't even have the hardware in case.. it's all out on the open... things just pluggen in... this is not for 24/7 usage. 4.0GHz to maybe 4.2GHz is alright for 24/7 but you will need water cooling... 4.5 or more, they do on phase cooling, dry ice and liquid nitrogen... and only for bechmarking... not for 24/7 use. When you have a systen running on 4.5Ghz please report how you run it 24/7... oh and by the way, if someone is overclocking to 4.5GHz or more and they change their CPU very frequently, they don't care if their CPU dies due to hardware failure due to overclocking, and have you noticed how many of those that do overclock that high have even different batches of same CPU... hardly not something someone would do normally and those people do not fit in regular PC users... they are enthusiasts... all they do every day, day after day is benchmark and what not... they are a very very small minority.... you wanna compare yourself to them or think you can easily achieve overclocks as them for 24/7 usage straight away with no experience... good luck to you...

Edited September 25, 2008 by Kuky

[Kuky]

Let me also add one more thing to above... I have an overclock to 4GHz and I run my PC every day... I have water cooling on the CPU and rest of the motehrboard is still well cooled by the huge 20cm fan on the side door, and case is ventilated by 2x 14cm and 3x 12cm fan.

 

Now I was able to get my E8500 to 4.2GHz pretty easy but at the expense of higher voltage on the CPU resulting in higher temperatures.. which wasn't really that bad but still I did not like it for 24/7 usage. As such the system was not 100% stable as every now and then the game would crash, there would be system restart just like that etc... even if Orthos would run without errors for 1h. System was not that stable even at 4.2GHz. Now it might be that my CPU is not one of the best batches which does vary but still to get to 4.5GHz I'd need to raise vCore pretty high and this is not for 24/7 usage even if system apears stable on stress testing.

 

And like I said, please get one such system yourself and show how high you can get it to run and prove me wrong.

[Flyby]

oh the horror! the horror!

 

Well I know I will have to do my homework before I select a cpu, especially for the core mission of running combat flight sims like Black Shark and Sow_BoB. Being as they will be cpu-intensive, I'll be needing a lot of ghz. Just selecting the correct stepping will need to be smartly done.

[Flyby]

but wait! there's more!!

 

Interested in a 1gb 4870 gpu?check out this article at Anandtech: http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415

 

The price seems right for the increase in performance as cmpared to the -512mb model.;)

Flyby out

[Groove]

I think i will go for the GTX280 in November.

[Flyby]

what about drivers and the BS engine?

 

Hey Groove,

I like the GTX 280 also. What monitor are you going to run that behemoth with? Also, do you know if DCS has tested the BS graphic engine on the newer ATI and Nvidia cards? Maybe DCS would state which drivers work best?

Flyby

[TheMoose]

Hey TheMoose, I'm thinking the GTX 280 for me too. The 4870-512 is a great card, especially with that speedy gddr5 memory. Still the 280 seems to have a bit more overhead room. What monitor are you running, and how do you rate it's performance in a combat flight sim?

 

I'm running with and LCD 24" Samsung syncMaster 245bw. Native resolution of 1920x1200

 

Not the most expensive one, but it does the job very well, until I save up for a 42"Aqua from sharp like my brother did.

 

As for performance for sim, well as for sim goes, FSX with AA all maxed out, for IL2 that was maxed out couple of generation cards ago. Lockon Maxed out as well. But lockon is more cpu intensive then it is for GPU. But Lockon does run much nicer and smoother compared to my 8800GTS that I had previously.

 

I got this GTX280 for bragging rights for Crysis :music_whistling: it is also maxed out now on DX10 on my native resolution with AA enable. NOT perfect I admit. I dont have a big Blue as a PC, but now it is very enjoyable at max settings. No need to tweak here and there. Basically no lag.

 

Also what I love about this card is that Nvidia is pushing Cuda very nicely with developers. Like lately Adobe users will be able to profit more on the GPU technology.

Here’s an article on it. http://www.internetnews.com/hardware/article.php/3773856/Adobe+nVidia+Work+to+Speed+Up+Apps.htm

 

This one about Partnership With MotionDSP http://www.emediaworld.com/press_release/release_detail.php?id=185127

 

This one about CyberLink PowerDirector Adds NVIDIA CUDA Technology

http://www.i4u.com/article20504.html

 

Many more…

 

As mention previously you can’t go wrong with Nvidia. As you can see it has many other aspect and implications or applications. As for “Marketing” well, that’s a means to an end.

Nevertheless ATI will have their own partners as they will advance very quickly on the market place because of this gem that they brought out. Competition is good for all of us.

 

If it wasn’t for ATI I would have paid 750$ Instead of 500$ for my GTX280. So thanks ATI :thumbup: :D

Edited September 26, 2008 by TheMoose

[Flyby]

now, just to confuse the picture

 

ATi has released a 1gb version of it's 4870 card. I'm sure comparisons will be made shortly;) http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415

 

Thanks for the links, Moose!:thumbup:

Flyby out

[-sulan-]

ATi has released a 1gb version of it's 4870 card. I'm sure comparisons will be made shortly;) http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415

 

Thanks for the links, Moose!:thumbup:

Flyby out

 

Thats the one I'll probably be getting!! :) Thx for the heads up on the article!!

[Flyby]

re the 1gb 4870

 

that new ATi card is impressive, especially for the price and performance. Maybe TheMoose can explain the technical differences between that card, and the GTX280?:) I'm not sure I understand those differences, erxcept to speculate the dissimilar architectures used and ATi uses faster memory, but it's also a power hog compared to the 280. I think the 280 must have higher pixel and texture fill rates (in gb/ps)to still be faster than the 4870-1gb which may mean that memory speed and size can only go so far in rendering complex graphics. We'll have to read more articles, I guess. I'll see if www.gpureview.com has any specs listed for the new card. At least at that site one can compare two GPUs side by side for performance.

Flyby out

[Flyby]

hey Acedy!

 

thanks for posting the links. I see from the Harwarezone link that I can compare the new 4870-1gb's specs to the GTX 280 and 260. It seems as if the new ATi card is being held back by a lower memory bandwidth, bus width and ROP compared to the GTX280. I guess that's all in the architecture design? Imagine what that card would be if it equaled the 280 in those respects AND held the faster gddr5 memory. But then it would cost more too. Beside, for some reason ATi decided not to go head-to-head directly with Nvidia in those regards. Maybe that's why they're both being sued for price-fixing?:D

At any rate, price makes it hard to overlook this card. It's a good choice for a single card solution, second only to the GTX280, imo. Maybe it will force the price of the 280 down just a few more dollars.

I have a question for anyone. Which of these two cards will be best for Black Shark?:joystick:

[stealthtemplates]

Only difference between this card and the previous model is it comes with 1gb of memory, which as you can see helps in higher resolutions ;)

If your after a higher performing card go the Diamond Super RV770 model, its higher clocked and comes within arms reach of the GTX280.

 

Right now ATI is sitting back to see how CUDA adopts before implementing it themselves, but I do believe when it becomes more mainstream and useful they will. I hope they do soon seeing how Photoshop CS4 benefits with CUDA.

[TheMoose]

I disagree completely. This is exactly the worst scenario for devs and end-users, as it will (once again) ...

 

 

It's your opinion and I respect it, let’s see how the future unfolds itself. I never said that one was worst then the other. But let’s see how the future grabs and hold on the market place, "shares" and such. Who will be on TOP? Nvidia still is today, but tomorrow, who knows... They held the crown for so long, only now ATI has brought something to compete with Nvidia. Still, they come to an arm length, but most games nvidia is still on top in regards of single card frame rates, not comparing SLI or Crossfire since I don’t have either.

 

As a consumer, both products are awesome and arguments are bias on personal emotions, my Dad is better than yours and such. Both offers technology that surpasses both our own understanding on the capability they offer.

 

I have no argument; both are good, it's a personal choice. Mine is Nvidia, yours is ATI. I'm fine with that...

 

As a consumer, it's not only what better performs, but what is the better bang for the $.

 

I choose to went to the extreme and go with what Nvidia had to offer for a top dog. My choice & my budget... To each his own.

 

 

Best regards,

Edited September 27, 2008 by TheMoose

[Groove]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG-aMdJVtUw

 

"Look, are you insinuating something?" "Nudge nudge, say no more..." LMAO ;)

 

Yes, im insinuating that my new 24" TFT need a faster Vidcard, especially with GTA IV coming 21st November in Germany.

[Kuky]

Yes, im insinuating that my new 24" TFT need a faster Vidcard, especially with GTA IV coming 21st November in Germany.

 

I went from 22" to 24" recently and I can see no FPS loss with but higher resolution

[Flyby]

ok, but

 

Please explain what it is about the 280 that "seems" to make it a better performer than the 4870-1gb. ROPs? Twice the bus width?

Flyby out

[Flyby]

rgrt, Acedy

Flyby out

[Highwayman-Ed]

I owned a Radeon X800XT and I was very happy with that card, it performed extremely well, and still does given it's age.

 

Then SLI and Crossfire arrived. I read the reviews, looked at the pro's and con's and decided that a 1GB 7950 GX2 (2x 512MB 7950's in SLI on one card) was the way to go and based a whole new system around it. The card performed well, but I had quite a few crashes. I experienced a lot of odd issues in games, like the shaders in Lock on, clipping and tearing in other games, but continued on never the less even though I had to disable SLI in a lot of the games I played to get better frame rates!

 

Times have now moved on again, two years to be exact, and the time to change has arrived. Once again I read the reviews, looked at my options, and considered my history with both vendors.

 

Based on those factors and price, I chose a Powercolor 1GB 4870 and I couldn't be happier. I've not only increased my performance by at least 100% in ALL games that I play (CPU limitations aside such as dense city in Lock on and FSX), but my system has not crashed once in a week since I've had the card installed, where I would previously have experienced one or two by now with the 7950 GX2.

 

If there is one thing that I've learnt over the years, it's that SLI (and maybe crossfire) are for those with money to burn because there is not yet a widespread adpotion by the games developers of those technologies. I thought I was future proofing my system 2 years ago when I purchased the 7950 GX2, where all I actually did was buy a heater for my PC.

 

My advice.... Whichever way you go, Nvidia or ATI buy a single card solution. When SLI / Crossfire becomes more widespread and delivers real benefits to more than one or two titles, go ahead and buy a second card and link them.

[-sulan-]

Good advice Highwayman Ed!! :thumbup:

 

 

I'd very much like to get the powercolor 4870, but it does'nt sell where I have to buy it (due to buying through my work). And I read about issues with the stock fan/cooler(?), so I was thinking I'd get a cooler; even if those issues are solved I might want to overclock it without making the GPU-fan a big part of the Ka-50's sound :P

Maybe this one, they say it's compatible to the 4850, I assume it is to the 4870 as well (and they just have'nt updated their site yet)..

Any other cooler(s) to recommend?

[Fodder]

I might want to overclock it without making the GPU-fan a big part of the Ka-50's sound :P

 

Why not? You would have your own little turbine engine there. That's just some added realism :D

 

It seems that people buying aftermarket coolers often go for the Accelero. http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=147 It's cheap, big and effective.

 

Another good one is the Hr-03gt http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/vga/hr03gt/product_vga_cooler_hr03gt.htm but that one is a bit more expensive. And that one is harder to install I'd think, because the screws keep falling off. But the problem there is most likely between the chair and the gpu :P I have no experience with the accelero however. Both of them should work with the 4870 though

 

The GTX280 would be the card to get but it is just too expensive. The 4870 1gb seems to be very affordable and playing at very high resolutions, it might be the one I'll go for. Great value. And the (rumored) GT212 isn't coming till next year and Nvidia will then again skyrocket the card prices so one can keep dreaming about that one forever.

[Highwayman-Ed]

Which Powercolor is that, the one with the stock cooler or the overclocked PCS+ with the ZEROtherm cooler (this one)? If the PCS+, how is that cooler, I hear some people report it is annoying (rather loud and changing speed a lot), others say it is okay. Sure it is rather subjective opinion, but what do you think? And does it still blow the air out of the case's back?

 

It's the PCS+ and it has less than half the sound output of my old 7950 GX2, and it's also quieter than my CPU fan so I don't notice it. Even at full speed, which it's only done once during Crysis, my CPU fan usually throttles up at the same time and is louder anyway...

 

Thus far the card hasn't tipped over 60 degrees yet at all, so no temperature issues where my 7950 GX2 ran at an average of 79 degrees and even topped 100 degrees once, although it was the middile of an Australian summer ;)

 

It does blow some of the air out of the back, but that's better than my 7950 GX2 which didn't blow anything out of the case. My overall system temperature is down by 3 degrees since changing.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Highwayman-Ed

[Flyby]

it's not about the game developers

 

The game developers are not entirely responsible for how games scale when using either Crossfire or SLi. That's more on ATi and Nvidia, and neither one of the has solved the problem of how to two GPUs to work together seamlessly with any consistency (from game to game). There is a new technology called Hydra that seems to do just that: make two video cards scale nearly 100% over one card. This effectively means doubling the performance of one GPU when going to two GPUs. I may not be expressing this correctly, so here's a link to one article I read: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2328495,00.asp

 

Wouldn't it be great if this were available? Imagine; no more motherboard selection conflicts for either going with Crossfire or SLi when wanting to use two GPUs. Imagine employing this technology to join two GPUs on one PCB versus the problems seen now with this configuration. It could happen!:D

Flyby out

[stealthtemplates]

Yes it certainly looks like Hydra (proper scaling on GPU's) and AMD's Bulldozer (once optimised for the desktop market) are the future in multi-core hardware. It shouldnt be up to software developers to address the issues faced by hardware :)

[Highwayman-Ed]

Sorry, i didn't mean to bag software developers, but they and the hardware vendors should be working closer to use the technologies that are available.