Aim 120 locks on a different target after missing the first

[Topper81]

I don't know exactly if it's a bug bit I guess because it is extremly dangerous if not...

Please check the first AMRAM shot of the attached trk file. (This time it was lucky )

shortIntercepttrk.trk

[GGTharos]

What's dangerous is you shooting a 120 where there might be something the 120 could lock onto other than the target.   The same should be true of SARH missiles, though this isn't modeled in DCS.

[SCPanda]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:47 AM, GGTharos said:

What's dangerous is you shooting a 120 where there might be something the 120 could lock onto other than the target.   The same should be true of SARH missiles, though this isn't modeled in DCS.

Is this the correct behavior in real life tho? I have had situations where I STT locked a target using ACM mode who was 3 miles in front of my nose flying level not doing any maneuvers. I was pointing my nose straight at him and I had visual on him, but the 120 just went crazy and made a high G 60 degree turn and went for a friendly on my left. I doubt 120 is this stupid IRL. Datalink should tell the missile which target to go against. Why would USAF employ a missile that locks on to any random target that is in front of it instead of going for a target the launch aircraft tells it to go for? 

Edited May 10, 2021 by SCPanda

[Cmptohocah]

5 hours ago, SCPanda said:

Is this the correct behavior in real life tho? I have had situations where I STT locked a target using ACM mode who was 3 miles in front of my nose flying level not doing any maneuvers. I was pointing my nose straight at him and I had visual on him, but the 120 just went crazy and made a high G 60 degree turn and went for a friendly on my left. I doubt 120 is this stupid IRL. Datalink should tell the missile which target to go against. Why would USAF employ a missile that locks on to any random target that is in front of it instead of going for a target the launch aircraft tells it to go for? 

 

An how can the missile tell which is the "real" target and which one is not?
The DL does not navigate the missile to the target, but puts it in the area where the missile seeker can pick the target up. That's why all radar-guided missiles have homing heads. If the two airplanes in front of the missile merge (friendly and foe), how can the missile tell which one it should go for? It can't.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cmptohocah

[Harker]

An how can the missile tell which is the "real" target and which one is not?
The DL does not navigate the missile to the target, but puts it in the area where the missile seeker can pick the target up. That's why all radar-guided missiles have homing heads. If the two airplanes in front of the missile merge (friendly and foe), how can the missile tell which one it should go for? It can't.

That happens in DCS. IRL, the fighter-missile datalink remains after the missile goes active, so that helps. Also, the missile is provided with several criteria specific to the target, namely Doppler gate, range gate etc.

All of these minimize the chance of going after the wrong target, although the possibility is always there, especially if the missile doesn't see its intended target and then throws the gates open, in order to increase its chances of picking something up.

It's just that in DCS, it's worse than it should be, because all of the above target criteria is not simulated.

[GGTharos]

@SCPanda and @Cmptohocah, when launching the missile (we're talking at least as far back as 70s if not further back) with target, ie. not any sort of FLOOD/Maddog launch, the missile will be loaded with target data before launch.   This means look angle, angle rate, range and range rate (so basically your angle/range gates) and doppler gate.  Note that all of this is before you even consider a datalink (which a sparrow does not have for example), and is very relevant for short range launches.

 

It knows where to look for its target, it won't try to go after something completely unrelated, even if it has to throw all of these gates open (because it didn't find a target within those parameters).  That it does so in DCS is an error in simulation.  You can defeat all of the above things and the missile could switch targets yes, but it has to be somewhere reasonably close to where the missile is looking.  The huge rapid full gimbal scan is a DCSism.

 

Same with a FLOOD or MADDOG launch, those may be biased in look-angle or search pattern by the aircraft's current maneuvering and have no target data loaded into them, but again - it wouldn't be a full gimbal scan. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by GGTharos

[SCPanda]

@Cmptohocah Well according to Harker and GGTharos apparently the missile can tell

 

So we can agree that there is something wrong in the DCS that is causing all those friendly fires with 120s in MP severs. 

 

[TAW_Blaze]

4 hours ago, SCPanda said:

@Cmptohocah Well according to Harker and GGTharos apparently the missile can tell

 

So we can agree that there is something wrong in the DCS that is causing all those friendly fires with 120s in MP severs. 

 

 

Well.. 90% of friendly fires on "DCS MP servers" is just horrid piloting.

 

The real problem is the shortcomings of the EW simulation making the missiles miss in a lot of cases where they should not. Especially in the last months I'm seeing a huge surge of completely suicidal tactics working out far too often.

[GGTharos]

10 hours ago, SCPanda said:

@Cmptohocah Well according to Harker and GGTharos apparently the missile can tell

 

So we can agree that there is something wrong in the DCS that is causing all those friendly fires with 120s in MP severs. 

 

 

No, I agree that some cases shouldn't occur, but not that friendly fires should not happen at all.  In fact I'm saying they should under correct-ish circumstances and they should happen with SARH as well, for the same reasons.

Edited May 11, 2021 by GGTharos