P-47 Engine weakness?

[LeCuvier]

I have little practice with the jug, so I tried my luck vs the Anton AI. To my great surprise, I found that I cannot catch up with the Anton, and that I cannot outrun it. And when I try for too long, the engine dies. I did move the boost lever together with the throttle lever, and I used water injection.

I thought that I must be doing something wrong due to my inexperience.

So I swapped sides and flew an Anton against a P-47-D40 AI (Trained). As long as I kept on the defensive, he could ot catch up with me, the F10 view showed him 40 km/h slower. In the end I got aggressive and managed to shoot him down. That latter part would not have worked with the AI at "Veteran".

Next, I took a Dora against a P-47D-40 AI (Veteran). With the Dora's more powerful engine I was more aggressive and there was some boom and zoom and turning action. At about 6 minutes into the mission, the P-47's propeller slowed down visibly, and 1 minute later it stopped altogether. The P-47 flew as a glider (a good glider!). I stopped the mission there and saved the track. Unfortunately, the track replay shows a totally different course of events, so there was no point posting it. In various missions F-190D vs P-47D AI I have seen the Jug's engine fail before I could even fire my guns. Typically between 5 - 7 minutes after missions start.

In conclusion,

1. I'm surprised that the jug is not faster than the good old Anton, but maybe that's realistic?
2. However, the jug's engine failing after 5 - 7 minutes without any battle damage does not look right to me. A BUG?

Edit: I tried once more, and this time the track seems to work. After 7 minutes with a bit of action, the jug's engine fails and it makes a nice emergency landing.

P-47-D40 AI Engine Fails.trk

Edited June 4, 2021 by LeCuvier

[grafspee]

 

After watching track, i can see that P-47's engine was fine until very end of track, you crashed in Fw190D9 ?

If you can, provide track for P-47 flight.

Edited June 4, 2021 by grafspee

[peachmonkey]

as an A8 plane pilot I guarantee you A8 does not fly like that when under control of a human. The initial zoom climb is so off it's maddening. It does not climb like that one freaking bit.

[LeCuvier]

5 hours ago, grafspee said:

 

After watching track, i can see that P-47's engine was fine until very end of track, you crashed in Fw190D9 ?

If you can, provide track for P-47 flight.

 

I watched the track after saving it, and it showed what I described. I replayed it just now, and it shows a different story. The Track replay is obviously bugged, and that doesn't help.

The true story is, the P-47D-40 has an engine failure after 5 to 7 minutes of dogfight.

[Diesel_Thunder]

The Jug is limited to 5 minutes of war emergency power (64” MP, 2,750 RPM, 2,400 HP) with water injection. Military power (52” MP, 2,700 RPM, 2,000 HP) without water injection is limited to 15 minutes. Cylinder head temperature limits at these high power levels are increased slightly from 232° to 260°. 
 

Beyond those limits you are risking your engine and really overstressing it. From what you described, it sounds like your engine packed it in after it had enough at high power. Doubly so if you ran out of water when at WEP. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Diesel_Thunder

[grafspee]

2 hours ago, Diesel_Thunder said:

The Jug is limited to 5 minutes of war emergency power (64” MP, 2,750 RPM, 2,400 HP) with water injection. Military power (52” MP, 2,700 RPM, 2,000 HP) without water injection is limited to 15 minutes. Cylinder head temperatures limits at these high power levels are increased slightly from 232° to 260°. 
 

Beyond those limits you are risking your engine and really overstressing it. From what you described, it sounds like your engine packed it in after it had enough at high power. Doubly so if you ran out of water when at WEP. 

 

Yeah all tru, but Op states that AI driven P-47 got engine fail after 5-7 min

[Diesel_Thunder]

His engine died in his first mission, and the AI’s engine in the second. 
 

Can’t help but wonder if the AI went to WEP and left it there. There’s enough water for about 15 minutes of operation (~30 gallons), so it shouldn’t have ran out of water. I’m willing to bet that both engines suffered an overstress failure. 

[grafspee]

Track with engine failure would be nice. Recently i was testing P-47 v AI K-4 and A-8 i pretty much fire wall engine for something like 10 min with no problems.

Edited June 5, 2021 by grafspee

[LeCuvier]

Remember, we are discussing my observation that the P-47D-40 piloted by AI (Veteran) suffers engine failure after 5 - 7 minutes of combat. I tried to reproduce the problem yesterday evening, and it did not happen. I tried again today, making sure I did not inflict any battle damage on the jug, just pretending to attack him in a turning fight. After very few turns, the jug's engine slowed down and then stopped; less than 6 minutes after mission start and very few minutes of action.

I saved the track and verified that it replayed correctly. I attach the new track and hope that it will still replay correctly when you open it.

P-47-D40 AI Engine Fails 20210605.trk

Edited June 5, 2021 by LeCuvier

[LeCuvier]

To be on the safe side, here is a second track. This time, I fly a Bf-109 to make my life easier, and the jug pilot is Ace so it's not too easy. Again, I just pretend I'm attacking, I don't want battle damage to muddy the water. jug engine fails less than 5 minutes after mission start, hardly 4 minutes of action.

P-47-D40 AI Engine Fails Again 20210605.trk

[grafspee]

show us P-47 engine fail when you are flying it. If you have working track with AI's engine failing, put it in to bug reports, i cant do anything about AI's engine management.

You said ,that you lost engine in fight i would like to see what was happening  watching AI's will give me nothing.

[LeCuvier]

1 hour ago, grafspee said:

...If you have working track with AI's engine failing, put it in to bug reports...

I posted 2 tracks with AI engine failing last night. The tracks worked for me. Can you try them just to be sure?

[grafspee]

6 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

I posted 2 tracks with AI engine failing last night. The tracks worked for me. Can you try them just to be sure?

I can't see at what power setting AI is flying as well his operation of intercooler cowl flaps, oil cooler, mixture etc

[PL_Harpoon]

Keep in mind that after the 5 min mark the engine failure is randomized.

It can happen instantly but just as well it can take several more minutes.

I guess this is to simulate engine wear and such.

[grafspee]

43 minutes ago, PL_Harpoon said:

Keep in mind that after the 5 min mark the engine failure is randomized.

It can happen instantly but just as well it can take several more minutes.

I guess this is to simulate engine wear and such.

Problem is that AI is loosing engine, which should not happen.

[Nealius]

I've been flying quite a few Liberation missions in the P-47 and have not seen any AI engine failures. I've seen one CFIT of AI during a dogfight that could have been attributed to an engine failure, but it's not definitive. 

[grafspee]

I did couple me vs ai, haven't notice any engine failures too. But i very rarely fly recently, not much time free for me

[LeCuvier]

This doesn't happen in every session. I did two sessions today, and the AI did not break his engine. Other days, I can fly several missions in the same session and it happens every time.

There seems to be a random factor in AI performance; in some sessions they perform better than in others.