Leap Support!!!

[dureiken]

Hi, does

On 6/19/2023 at 1:49 PM, A.F. said:

I use Leap Motion without PointCtl only in ED aircraft.
Unfortunately, third-party vendors do not support Leap Motion. In these airplanes, I use Leap Motion and PointCtl at the same time in such a way that I only display the virtual hands through Leap Motion.
This gives me a better feeling when clicking switches in the cockpit with PointCtl.
Did this help you?

Hi, does it mean it doesn't work with F15E from Razbam ? thanks

[edmuss]

The hands will appear and track but you wont be able to use them to actuate controls, this is down to razbam to implement. Unfortunately none of the 3rd party devs have done so yet, possibly due to not having the hardware themselves to test with.

For the modules that don't support the touch interaction, you could use the fingers app that combines the leap motion with a finger ring to replicate pointctrl functionality.

[A.F.]

Hi dureiken,
Exactly as edmuss described it.

Instead of a finger app I use PointCTRL

[dureiken]

ok thanks, problem with pointCTRL is delay

[Indyplumber]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:05 AM, edmuss said:

The hands will appear and track but you wont be able to use them to actuate controls, this is down to razbam to implement. Unfortunately none of the 3rd party devs have done so yet, possibly due to not having the hardware themselves to test with.

For the modules that don't support the touch interaction, you could use the fingers app that combines the leap motion with a finger ring to replicate pointctrl functionality.

Is there a tutorial on how to use leap with fingers app to do this?

[edmuss]

There's a thread about fingers specifically, should come up on the search somewhere

[firefox121]

En 18/8/2023 a las 19:09, Indyplumber dijo:

Is there a tutorial on how to use leap with fingers app to do this?

Easy, only use both at the same time, and buy a finger mouse ring lime me, so when you move the hand, cursor will move and youll be able to click buttons by clicking at ypur finger mouse.I use this device, only a few bucks at aliexpress. It comes with two buttons and a scroll wheel and is inalambric. has his own rf usb dongle.

Search for ring mouse and will find a lot of devices.

-P.S. : you dont need nor the leap motion device , nor the fingers app, just uncheck "use mouse" in VR tab and the cursor will stuck at the center, so when you move the head here goes the cursor, only clcik the right or left ring mouse button when the cross is over the cockpit button anf thas all, also you can rotate dials with the center ring mouse's wheel (just where I have my tumb over).

Usually I mount the device at my left hand, on my index finger, more usable because does not interfers with the throttle controls. 

If you not touch any moue button the cursor disappears, in order to make it visible again just click any mouse button and thats all.

 

NOTE . searching  at aliexpress I found a bluetooth version of the finger mouse...here you have the link.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005005909520469.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.35.7798c376yfq9Qp&algo_pvid=262eeab5-a0e8-4736-9e12-56385cedf546&aem_p4p_detail=2023082413240447328895395100008542119&algo_exp_id=262eeab5-a0e8-4736-9e12-56385cedf546-17&pdp_npi=4%40dis!EUR!20.21!9.9!!!156.30!!%40211b600816929086436172275e54ea!12000034804891829!sea!ES!4218856019!&curPageLogUid=kurrmyH2mDmN&search_p4p_id=2023082413240447328895395100008542119_18

 

 

 

 

s.

Edited August 24, 2023 by firefox121

[Dogmanbird]

I'm using a leap v2. 

Although my hands in front have always tracked extremely well, I've discovered that by using IR spot / flood lights, I can significantly improve both hand and finger tracking stability within the outer peripheral areas. Placing the lights at each side of my head with some diffusion to soften the shadows, I've pointed the lights at where my hands would be when operating dials/ switches on the side panels. Although the leap's built-in leds are supposed to alternate in time with the left or right camera, this still works.

This has given me reliable hand tracking everywhere within the leap control config window (easily outside of my VR headset's FOV) with near and far hand placement . If the hands leave the window, it instantly picks up the tracking when part of a finger or hand re enter the window. It's made pointing at anything very reliable and consistent. Finger tracking has improved a lot too, but I still prefer to use hotas buttons or ring mouse for that.

I accidentally came across this because I decided to try it with window blinds open and diffused sunlight flooding the area I sit, and realised the overall tracking had greatly improved, particularly at the edges of my FOV

Not sure if this is old news, but I've also found turning the pilot body off noticeably improves tracking, particularly if part of the body is close to a switch I wish to operate.    

Edited September 16, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[98abaile]

10 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

I'm using a leap v2. 

Although my hands in front have always tracked extremely well, I've discovered that by using IR spot / flood lights, I can significantly improve both hand and finger tracking stability within the outer peripheral areas. Placing the lights at each side of my head with some diffusion to soften the shadows, I've pointed the lights at where my hands would be when operating dials/ switches on the side panels.

This has given me reliable hand tracking everywhere within the leap control config window (easily outside of my VR headset's FOV) with near and far hand placement . If the hands leave the window, it instantly picks up the tracking when part of a finger or hand re enter the window. It's made pointing at anything very reliable and consistent. Finger tracking has improved a lot too, but I still prefer to use hotas buttons or ring mouse for that.

I accidentally came across this because I decided to try it with window blinds open and diffused sunlight flooding the area I sit, and realised the overall tracking had greatly improved, particularly at the edges of my FOV

Not sure if this is old news, but I've also found turning the pilot body off noticeably improves tracking, particularly if part of the body is close to a switch I wish to operate.    

Can you show us your setup? It sounds like you've got some lamps strapped to your head.

[Dogmanbird]

will do. the lamps are on stands just behind the seat and they point over the shoulders at the hands.

I've just returned one of the lamps for replacement as one of the 6 leds was flickering on/off. I bought several types off ebay that claim to be 30w equivalent but all were really about 10w or less. 

This one seems to perform as advertised at around 15w and 850nm. I cover the light sensor with tape. In aus it sells as a QC3654 

Edit - it's all temporary for the moment while experimenting. Normally the frame with mfds, ufc, keyboard, keypad etc would be surrounding the joystick, but I've found the tracking improved even further with it all removed. I'm tempted to leave it bare, but I'm waiting to see how the Quest 3 goes with masked passthrough.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[edmuss]

I'm interested to see how the IR emitters help the leap, I get a spot low down, on the right side of my chair where it is a bit flaky (think hind electrical panel where you have to reach down) if I can put an IR flood under the desk pointing in the that area it might help

[Dogmanbird]

Minimising the additional hard edged shadows cause by the extra lighting from different angles, seems to be the trick. The bit of diffusion softened the edges just enough to help.

Having the light source too far from the headset, although helped with stability, threw the tracking off in certain areas when the shadow was cast on an object close to a hand, such as the hotas. If you can remove any unnecessary nearby objects from your seating area, that helps.

 

 

[edmuss]

Good info thanks, I generally only fly by monitor light so it's largely dark. It's possible I'm just going slightly outside the envelope of the sensor. Might still pick a cheap one up to test

[Dogmanbird]

you're welcome and hope you get some gains from it. It's the shadows cast by the IR lights that is the issue. I don't think your monitor or other visible lighting will be any problem

[Dogmanbird]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:21 AM, firefox121 said:

Easy, only use both at the same time, and buy a finger mouse ring lime me, so when you move the hand, cursor will move and youll be able to click buttons by clicking at ypur finger mouse.I use this device, only a few bucks at aliexpress. It comes with two buttons and a scroll wheel and is inalambric. has his own rf usb dongle.

Search for ring mouse and will find a lot of devices.

-P.S. : you dont need nor the leap motion device , nor the fingers app, just uncheck "use mouse" in VR tab and the cursor will stuck at the center, so when you move the head here goes the cursor, only clcik the right or left ring mouse button when the cross is over the cockpit button anf thas all, also you can rotate dials with the center ring mouse's wheel (just where I have my tumb over).

Usually I mount the device at my left hand, on my index finger, more usable because does not interfers with the throttle controls. 

If you not touch any moue button the cursor disappears, in order to make it visible again just click any mouse button and thats all.

 

NOTE . searching  at aliexpress I found a bluetooth version of the finger mouse...here you have the link.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005005909520469.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.35.7798c376yfq9Qp&algo_pvid=262eeab5-a0e8-4736-9e12-56385cedf546&aem_p4p_detail=2023082413240447328895395100008542119&algo_exp_id=262eeab5-a0e8-4736-9e12-56385cedf546-17&pdp_npi=4%40dis!EUR!20.21!9.9!!!156.30!!%40211b600816929086436172275e54ea!12000034804891829!sea!ES!4218856019!&curPageLogUid=kurrmyH2mDmN&search_p4p_id=2023082413240447328895395100008542119_18

 

 

 

 

s.

 

You've inspired me to resurrect mine

I've now removed the sensor so it could be shortened and keep it out of the way of the brake lever. I've put the battery on the ground to minimise the weight on the stick.

Rotate the lever to remove from one joystick and attach to another

The one at the top was my old one that was wired to the ufc. Although it was mapped to mouse functions (via game device buttons), sometimes it would not behave as the mouse and I'd still need to use the real mouse. At least that problem's now solved.

I wish there was some consistency between aircraft (and in some cases within the same aircraft) as to which direction a mouse wheel or left / right mouse button needs to be pressed to flick a switch. 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[firefox121]

hace 21 minutos, Dogmanbird dijo:

You've inspired me to resurrect mine

I've removed the sensor so I could shorten it and keep it out of the way of the brake lever. I've put the battery on the ground to minimise the weight on the stick.

Rotate the lever to remove from one joystick and attach to another

The one at the top was my old one that was wired to the ufc. Although it was mapped to mouse functions (via game device buttons), for sometimes it would not behave as the mouse and I'd still need to use the real mouse. At least that problems now solved.

I wish there was some consistency between aircraft (and in some cases the same aircraft) as to which direction a mouse wheel or left / right mouse button needs to be pressed to flick a switch. 

nullnull

nullnullnull

 

Holy crap!! I never could imagine this use, but......will do soon....thanks for the idea.....

[Dogmanbird]

you're welcome

Now that ive removed the frame that had the ufc / mfds etc mounted, I've again tried placing the IR light in different positions. Currently I only have the one light. I'm now able to use it mounted out to my left just above head height, without any diffusion, pointing down at the left hand. i can reach all the way back behind my seat to almost reaching down and touching my left foot at the rudder pedals and still have a stable left hand. 

It appears that the best results are achieved if we are prepared to remove all hardware sitting close around us that IR shadows can fall on (confusing the Leap controller), other than the stick and throttle - plus adding the IR lighting.  V2 of the Leap Controller might be helping too.

[Dogmanbird]

I'm completely sold on the Leap Controller 2 - love it!

Get some fabric that shows as close to black as possible when viewing via the Leap Config app and use it to cover everything that shows up as middle to light grey (similar to skin colour) in your seating area. This, plus the additional IR lights, is the key!  

You've got to test the fabric under the IR cameras. I have 4 different black fabrics (how they look to the naked eye) and only one is black under the IR cameras. The others are showing as different shades of grey under IR and cause the fingers to wiggle and activate things as the hand passes over them. I have some comfy black trousers that also show up as almost white. Laying some suitable black cloth over my legs has also improved tracking

 

The black control panel on the virpil cm3 throttle shows up as light grey in IR and was causing my hands to jiggle around when passing over them.

Fortunately the cm3 throttle grips, vkb joystick and anything I've spray painted black appears as black to the ir cameras

 

In MSFS, using openxr toolkit controller emulation, 90 percent of the time i can now reliably activate switches with my fingers and rotate my hand to turn things. It's so much better than when I first started testing it and back when i was experimenting with the quest 2 hand tracking.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[edmuss]

I spoke to Dan@ultraleap and he suggested a blackout cloth called Duvetyne to provide a good IR absorbing backdrop, whilst testing different materials I had in stock I discovered that closed cell foam rubber tape shows up perfectly black in the visualiser.  I now have a rubber coated desk

[Dogmanbird]

Thanks for that product. Yes, I'm actually using a sheet of thin grey (to the eye) foam that appears as black, to cover parts of the cm3

I know I've been gushing over it somewhat, but it's hard to believe we've finally got to this stage and can ditch all the extra hardware  (i actually saw my very understanding better half smile when she entered the room)

Edited September 19, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

In DCS today I had an issue where there was an imaginary line running down through the left hand console of the av8b. Anything to the left of the line would not react to button presses when the laser was pointing at it, everything to the right worked fine. Recreating the WMR environment and reinstalling the leap software made no difference.

What seems to have fixed it, is while keeping my head turned about 90 degrees left and resetting the VR view, then doing the same looking far right and resetting the vr view, than back to directly forward and resetting. All good after that 

[fabio.dangelo]

AV-8B?!?! has no leap support?

Are you sure it doesn't use leap to emulate controllers?

[edmuss]

The hands show up as normal but you can't interact with the fingers, you can use the laser pointers but the click emulation is still really flaky for me (in other words I've not practised it enough).

[Dogmanbird]

Yeah it possibly is emulating controllers. The "laser / mouse to click" is working great. I just wish I could disable gestures completely whilst keeping the laser on (and use hotas/mouse buttons for switches), as I'm very occasionally activating things, particularly jettisoning weapons when I grab the throttle  so i've had to rotate the throttle outward a little to keep the laser away from that button. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[edmuss]

Which click emulation do you use?  The index curl always moves the pointer for me and the thumb squeeze seems really inconsistent; perhaps I'm simply not moving my thumb in the right manner?