Searching for small ground targets

[Goliathus]

Hey guys,

 

maybe a noob guestion, but I struggle when on CAS mission, cause I have problem to find targets. Let me picture you my problem. I play DCS with Liberation camapign and when I´m aasignet to a CAS mission, I get waypoint where I can search for enemy ground targets, its usually very rough position, units are very often just somewhere nearby (logically). Usually I fly with atflir, use mavericks or something similar (guided).

 

Then there are situations - if the enemy units are pushing (on the move), I can use A/G GMT radar mode and find my targets without any problem, only issue is that I must visually identify the unit if it is friendly or not. But if units are defending, they are static, I can´t find any small targets like tanks etc. GMT mode is of no use, cause units are static, map mode is useless, cause small units are well hidden in terrain and cannot be spotted on the radar (at least I don´t recognize them on the radar). Only way I could from time to time find any targets is by pure luck. If I was shot at, I could navigate my atflir on the spot and then engage the unit, or if I was lucky enough that enemy units where very near my waypoint, I could spot them by atflir. By this is usally not the case.

 

Can you help me what is your way of spotting enemy ground units on CAS missions, when you have no specific coordinates where to search for enemy units? It is easy to engage units if you have labels on, but that is not realistic to me, I refuse to use them in any variation. And also it is easy if you get specific GPS coordinates where you can find some units, but what if they moved and then they went static somewhere else? 

 

I just think I´m missing some certain way of searching for ground targets using onboard systems on my F/A 18C. Yea, I forgot to mention JTAC, of course I can find units marked by red smoke on the ground, but I don´t see it very realistic, cause in real life, the smoke would be only somewhere near the unit and enemy would be stupid to stay exactly on the spot after he gets marked by JTAC smoke. Using laser MAVS is one way of searching/eliminating enemies, but there must be some other way.

 

Can you help me with this?

 

Also a simple addon to my question - what is your way of making all hud symbols visible when using headtracing system? I use Delanclip and usually if I zoom out when in my cocpit, my HUD symbology stays like if it is still zoomed in and I can´t see all the information on the HUD (cause the symbology exceeds the HUD after I zoom out).

 

Thx for your help.

[falcon_120]

I would say the main thing you need is practice and some good principles. Finding targets on the ground is real hard, this is true also for real life, if anything i guess in DCS is easier than in real life, as many times, they have a good contrast against the ground, and there are no such things like camouflage in tanks/other units, which is a thing in RL. I guess I can only give you some tips that works for me:

 

• Try always to maintain an orbit position, high enough that gives you a clear view with your flir, while maintaining SA. Be methodic, like start from your waypoints and sweep the area slowly in a regular pattern towards known enemy position.
• Use your eyes, its very easy sometimes to locate the position of targets with your eyes, specially if you bind the zoom or super zoom option. This will somehow simulate the visual accuaty you loose in a monitor, or just the use of binoculars.
• If you get eyes on your targets, use your HMCS to mark them and slave your flir to that position, that is a game changer.
• See how other people does it, this youtube channel is fun and does a lot of CAS, take a look: 

[Goliathus]

Thx. I get the point, there shouldn´t be any easy way of spotting tanks and make them sitting ducks. I guess in reality I would get over radio at least some information where to start looking. After 2.7 update it is sometimes almost impossible to orbit over frontline, cause the cloud deck covers great area quite often. Since this update I wonder if there is some other way searching for enemy tanks without cheating the reality (F10 map, red smoke etc.).

 

To be honest, its not easy to spot aircraft either in dogfight after I loose sight for a while. But I can get over that using AA radar properly (yea, only if I don´t get shot before I could find the enemy).

 

Well it seems I just need much more practice. AI buddies are soooo all-seeing, they always report what and where they see. They just mysteriously know whether it is an air defense target or something else  I´m struggling to find any targets that are non-moving, not on road or in the middle of a large grass area. But yeah, probably that is as it should be in reality as well.

 

Using HMCS is important to me in every aspect in DCS, cause at the moment I´m not able to maintain good SA without it, especially when flying at night (if I trade it for the NVG instead). 

[Harker]

Thx. I get the point, there shouldn´t be any easy way of spotting tanks and make them sitting ducks. I guess in reality I would get over radio at least some information where to start looking. After 2.7 update it is sometimes almost impossible to orbit over frontline, cause the cloud deck covers great area quite often. Since this update I wonder if there is some other way searching for enemy tanks without cheating the reality (F10 map, red smoke etc.).
 
To be honest, its not easy to spot aircraft either in dogfight after I loose sight for a while. But I can get over that using AA radar properly (yea, only if I don´t get shot before I could find the enemy).
 
Well it seems I just need much more practice. AI buddies are soooo all-seeing, they always report what and where they see. They just mysteriously know whether it is an air defense target or something else  I´m struggling to find any targets that are non-moving, not on road or in the middle of a large grass area. But yeah, probably that is as it should be in reality as well.
 
Using HMCS is important to me in every aspect in DCS, cause at the moment I´m not able to maintain good SA without it, especially when flying at night (if I trade it for the NVG instead). 

If you are having issues with the cloud cover and you're playing single player, you can always dial it back via the mission editor.

About the A2A stuff, losing visual can indeed be a real problem, thus the saying "lose sight, lose fight". As you build more experience, you'll be able to estimate where an enemy might be and learn how to scan sectors (pick a part of the sky and scan it, then move to another part etc).

And regarding spotting ground units, it's difficult IRL, because they of course won't sit in the open, waiting to get bombed. There are even things that we don't have in DCS, such as materials designed to reduce IR signature, using things like branches etc to hide the vehicle etc. It's very unlikely that a single aircraft will be sent out to hunt, without some help from other assets. In DCS, you can deal with that problem by using the JTAC for lasing or marking, mission scripting or playing online with other people, who will share information with you and direct you into finding and confirming the target.

[theIRIEone]

The *new FLIR renderer* ,responsible for the push back in ATFLIR delivery, may help you out with this a little when it is released... Oh, wait^^

On the real though: Practice, practice, practice... and actively switching modes and brightness / contrast etc can help a lot.

If possible fly an orbit over tgt area, depending on the angles etc bulidings and the likes may also block direct LoS to targets - so it's good to get a view of the area from as many sides as possible, with as many filters switched / tuned as necessary.

[Recluse]

Dare I be struck down by the Gods of Realism, but I have made peace with using the small  dot labels as a visual aid.  Whenever I fly in a commercial airliner I am struck by how easy it is to spot cars and trucks on the roads below even at fairly high altitudes. Much easier than in any Flight Sim I have tried, including DCS.  Doubly hard in DCS when vehicles are not on a road but blended into greenery.  I feel like the small dots are actually a better representation of what the eye can make out from the distance to get you in the right direction.  Also make use of the TPOD aids where I can USUALLY pick something up even before the label becomes visible, but it is a crapshoot getting the pod CLOSE enough to the actual target area when given rough coordinates to be able to get it onto a vehicle in the clutter.

[Goliathus]

Well maybe my learning curve is not so steep in this matter, cause I fly the F/A 18C since 10/2020  I consider my self still being a noob.

 

Orbiting nerby frontline can be tricky in a cloudy day, especially if the clouddeck is only at angels 2 - 3. Its hard to not expose myself to enemies and usually I can´t count on my AI buddies, which love kamikaze flying in to the hills or flying somewhere over the rainbow until there´s no fuel left.

 

But I love this game, it is soooo much fun to play. Until you meet the almighty SA10 covered by few TORs.

 

Thanks gyus for your help.

[SharpeXB]

Let them shoot at you, that will give away their position! just be ready to evade…

[...]

En 6/7/2021 a las 9:19, Goliathus dijo:

Hey guys,

 

maybe a noob guestion, but I struggle when on CAS mission, cause I have problem to find targets. Let me picture you my problem. I play DCS with Liberation camapign and when I´m aasignet to a CAS mission, I get waypoint where I can search for enemy ground targets, its usually very rough position, units are very often just somewhere nearby (logically). Usually I fly with atflir, use mavericks or something similar (guided).

 

Then there are situations - if the enemy units are pushing (on the move), I can use A/G GMT radar mode and find my targets without any problem, only issue is that I must visually identify the unit if it is friendly or not. But if units are defending, they are static, I can´t find any small targets like tanks etc. GMT mode is of no use, cause units are static, map mode is useless, cause small units are well hidden in terrain and cannot be spotted on the radar (at least I don´t recognize them on the radar). Only way I could from time to time find any targets is by pure luck. If I was shot at, I could navigate my atflir on the spot and then engage the unit, or if I was lucky enough that enemy units where very near my waypoint, I could spot them by atflir. By this is usally not the case.

 

Can you help me what is your way of spotting enemy ground units on CAS missions, when you have no specific coordinates where to search for enemy units? It is easy to engage units if you have labels on, but that is not realistic to me, I refuse to use them in any variation. And also it is easy if you get specific GPS coordinates where you can find some units, but what if they moved and then they went static somewhere else? 

 

I just think I´m missing some certain way of searching for ground targets using onboard systems on my F/A 18C. Yea, I forgot to mention JTAC, of course I can find units marked by red smoke on the ground, but I don´t see it very realistic, cause in real life, the smoke would be only somewhere near the unit and enemy would be stupid to stay exactly on the spot after he gets marked by JTAC smoke. Using laser MAVS is one way of searching/eliminating enemies, but there must be some other way.

 

Can you help me with this?

 

Also a simple addon to my question - what is your way of making all hud symbols visible when using headtracing system? I use Delanclip and usually if I zoom out when in my cocpit, my HUD symbology stays like if it is still zoomed in and I can´t see all the information on the HUD (cause the symbology exceeds the HUD after I zoom out).

 

Thx for your help.

 

The best way to find ground targets is to select the TPOD in infrared mode, ground units stand out much more. Do not look for anything with the maximum magnification of the screen, because you will only be seeing small areas, search with a medium magnification in infrared and when you see something that may be a vehicle, increase the zoom and if you want, switch to TV mode to better identify it .

[Cepheus76]

Another option for CAS in DCS Liberation missions is to load laser guided munitions and then use LSS mode of the ATFLIR to find targets designated by the drone, which is usually around.