Damage model in practice

[Havner]

Just a standard flying around an airport to practice handling the KA-50.

I've noticed that when I keep too big descent rate (collector down all the way) and allow it to speed up too much vertically it enters some state where collector has no effect (it trembles then). The only way is to pitch down, lower AOA, get some speed and level. So I did. Unfortunately I was too low and hit the ground in the process. And now comes funny thing.

The heli seems to be completely intact. Everything works, etc, I'm able to fly just fine. It just has a tendency to pitch down. Then I checked external and this is what I saw :)

 

And I repeat, I was able to fly it for some time. But finally it tear itself apart without my intervention (just trying to keep it level).

 

Hi-Res here

 

Edited November 7, 2008 by Havner

[GGTharos]

Congratulations on your acquaintance with the Vortex Ring effect ;)

[Havner]

Congratulations on your acquaintance with the Vortex Ring effect ;)

 

I knew it had it's name ;)

[blitz-hawk]

Yet another fine example of why tail rotors are for suckers! :lol:

[CYGAN apa.sq]

Havner , it's depend how you look on this simulation :)....but in real life this situation i guarantee you in 90% that you are crash .I mean ,if you lost tail hydraulic and fuel system will be enought demage and make imposible to controlable whole chopper to fly or safe landing.

Edited November 7, 2008 by CYGAN apa.sq

[EagleEye]

Thanks for your screens Havner!

[Kurtz]

Heli with after burners, nice :)

[morsmortis]

This damage modeling reminds me of the one in A-10:Cuba!

[EagleEye]

Heli with after burners, nice :)

:megalol: Nice one!

[Namenlos Ein]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0-50

Во время одного из испытаний по боевой живучести проводился отстрел хвостового оперения, что однако не сказалось на возможности машины продолжить полёт и совершить безопасную посадку.

During flight tests of combat survivability Ka-50's tail unit was separate in-flight from airframe with explosive bolts. The helicopter continued a flight and land safely. Well-known story I think.

[Havner]

Havner , it's depend how you look on this simulation :)....but in real life this situation i guarantee you in 90% that you are crash .I mean ,if you lost tail hydraulic and fuel system will be enought demage and make imposible to controlable whole chopper to fly or safe landing.

 

I can't forgive myself I didn't try to lower the gear. I was too shocked that I still can fly. But if you look at those screenies notice that on the 3rd one rotors are not blured. Like I wrote, eventually I lost control. Power loss, some more parts started to break and I crashed.

 

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0-50

During flight tests of combat survivability Ka-50's tail unit was separate in-flight from airframe with explosive bolts. The helicopter continued a flight and land safely. Well-known story I think.

 

That's nice, I didn't know it.

Explosive bolts? They did it on purpose?

 

EDIT: BTW Namenlos, you live in the same city that my friend that got me BS ;)

Edited November 7, 2008 by Havner

[Namenlos Ein]

I can't forgive myself I didn't try to lower the gear. I was too shocked that I still can fly. But if you look at those screenies notice that on the 3rd one rotors are not blured. Like I wrote, eventually I lost control. Power loss, some more parts started to break and I crashed.

 

Explosive bolts? They did it on purpose?

 

Did you save a track of this incident?

 

About explosive bolts. Yes, it was performed in test purpose. «Отстрел хвостового оперения» don't means they really shoot at flying Ka-50 with AA guns or SAMs, don't you think?

[Yo-Yo]

Havner , it's depend how you look on this simulation :)....but in real life this situation i guarantee you in 90% that you are crash .I mean ,if you lost tail hydraulic and fuel system will be enought demage and make imposible to controlable whole chopper to fly or safe landing.

 

Please take a look at the Ka-50 drawing to find out where the fuel tanks, control boosters and hydraulics are in Ka-50. :)

[Yo-Yo]

I can't forgive myself I didn't try to lower the gear. I was too shocked that I still can fly. But if you look at those screenies notice that on the 3rd one rotors are not blured. Like I wrote, eventually I lost control. Power loss, some more parts started to break and I crashed.

 

 

 

That's nice, I didn't know it.

Explosive bolts? They did it on purpose?

 

EDIT: BTW Namenlos, you live in the same city that my friend that got me BS ;)

 

 

The things you saw were balance change and possibly delayed malfunction of systems that are possible after you hit the ground.

[CYGAN apa.sq]

That's right Yo-Yo ...i'm not specialist about Ka-50 but You don't undarstand me .... i give example .

If you separate tail in-flight from airframe with explosive bolts (like NamenlosEin wrote) that's ok ....but if lost it by missile hit , AA gun or hit the grund I suppose flying in this situation could be very difficult .If fire will be onboard there is possibility to explosion becouse fire could penetrate deep in, pilot will take decission to eject .

Like i said this is example becouse very difficult judge what will be happen during accident ,not test flight when You prepare airframe to this put in explosive bolts in right place.Depend in which position and altitude chopper is during hit even if normally could be controlable when you are to low or high bank angle you 'll not recover horizontal flight on time.

Yeah hydraulic and fuel syst. was't good idea .......

Edited November 7, 2008 by CYGAN apa.sq

[EagleEye]

Please take a look at the Ka-50 drawing to find out where the fuel tanks, control boosters and hydraulics are in Ka-50. :)

Could you share the drawings which ED is using? Found not much good drawings over the internet...

[Havner]

Did you save a track of this incident?

 

Nope, didn't think of it at that point :cry:

 

About explosive bolts. Yes, it was performed in test purpose. «Отстрел хвостового оперения» don't means they really shoot at flying Ka-50 with AA guns or SAMs, don't you think?

I'm able to read cyrylic but understand it only as long as it's similar to Polish :).

No, I don't think they were shooting at it. Just though that maybe the construction didn't hold and the tail just fell apart during some manevours or something. That were flight tests as you wrote, so that might be possible.

[Namenlos Ein]

Well, sometimes someone even can understand what I wrote here. But sometimes I can't do it myself.

 

It was a single test flight with explosive bolts installed. I can't find a single photo or video of this interesting trial due the secrecy, I think. So I don't know how many of Ka-50's tail was lost in real flight.

 

http://www.talkingproud.us/HistoryB52NoTail.html — tailless B-52.

[Boberro]

ROFL, afterburner :D

[Bucic]

Please take a look at the Ka-50 drawing to find out where the fuel tanks, control boosters and hydraulics are in Ka-50. :)

 

And where that would be? :music_whistling: I didn't see such drawing in the manual.

I would appreciate any help.

[Coolhnd1]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0-50

During flight tests of combat survivability Ka-50's tail unit was separate in-flight from airframe with explosive bolts. The helicopter continued a flight and land safely. Well-known story I think.

 

I don't care how tough you are, I don't think I'd like to be the test pilot on that flight!:pilotfly: