Is there a list of shared controls between the f-18 and f-16?

[Skwirl865]

I want to set my new controls to be as common as possible on my nee hotas setup.   I haven’t flown the hornet but I plan to. I’m still a newb currently working on the 16 but my son just got the hornet. I want the controls to be as close as possible so we can use as close to the same layout as possible and I can help him learn and vise versa. 

[Razor18]

Two different aircraft with two different control setup. Sorry, but I'm not sure what you are asking is feasible.

[Skwirl865]

1 hour ago, Razor18 said:

Two different aircraft with two different control setup. Sorry, but I'm not sure what you are asking is feasible.

I didn’t figure there were many.  I was just hoping lol

im mapping my controls by keyboard command outside of dcs instead of with buttons. I’m hoping some translate and make setting up the other aircraft less work

Edited September 6, 2021 by Skwirl865

[Razor18]

Oh... if you do not use some HOTAS, you have a little more chance with the keyboard, but then, there goes the immersion...

[Frederf]

It looks like he is binding his joystick to emulate keyboard presses to use the default keyboard binds in DCS. You can do that but not for both at the same time. Probably the best way to make that work is to pick one airplane and make all of the keyboard commands equal to the default for that one and then for the other airplane change the keyboard binds as necessary. I have no idea how many of the keyboard commands would line up between modules, maybe several maybe zero.

 

There are lots of similar commands in both airplanes. Trim, trigger, weapon release, cursor control, antenna elevation but you'll never learn any airplane unless you think in that airplane.

[Skwirl865]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

It looks like he is binding his joystick to emulate keyboard presses to use the default keyboard binds in DCS. You can do that but not for both at the same time. Probably the best way to make that work is to pick one airplane and make all of the keyboard commands equal to the default for that one and then for the other airplane change the keyboard binds as necessary. I have no idea how many of the keyboard commands would line up between modules, maybe several maybe zero.

 

There are lots of similar commands in both airplanes. Trim, trigger, weapon release, cursor control, antenna elevation but you'll never learn any airplane unless you think in that airplane.

yea, mapping a virpil cm2 and a gladiator nxt to default dcs key commands.  im doing it in joystick gremlin so any that match will already be there when i open another aircraft and like u said, change as needed. 

hoping to save myself some papping work later on by doing it the long way in the beginning.  also save myself the risk of losing all that work if something happens to dcs and i have to reinstall or an update ruins them.

[Foka]

That's completly rediculus way to map controls. You're trying to solve problem, whichy you created yourself. Additionally you'll have another software running in the background that can crash or cause crashes.

 

Just bind your HOTAS switches directly in DCS. You'll do it once, and you're done. Now you're not saving anything.

 

PS Reinstalling DCS won't affect controls bindings, these are saved in Saved Games folder.

[Bunny Clark]

Yah, I'd also recommend binding everything in DCS. Unless you want to do some extremely complex control mapping with multiple layers or something. It's far easier to just have DCS handle all your bindings for you in-game and then you'll never need to switch anything when you swap jets. DCS has one of the best control mapping systems of any flight sim I've used, it's actually easier than using Joystick Gremlin.

 

If you'd like to backup your control files, or transfer them to another computer, they are saved as .lua files at {username}/Saved Games/DCS[.openbeta]/Config/Input/ in folders by module and then control type. Pasting these files into this directory on any computer will instantly transfer all your bindings over, and can be used to move all your control bindings over from Stable to Open Beta as well. 

[Skwirl865]

On 9/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Foka said:

That's completly rediculus way to map controls. You're trying to solve problem, whichy you created yourself. Additionally you'll have another software running in the background that can crash or cause crashes.

 

Just bind your HOTAS switches directly in DCS. You'll do it once, and you're done. Now you're not saving anything.

 

PS Reinstalling DCS won't affect controls bindings, these are saved in Saved Games folder.

I had to use mapping software “joystick gremlin” to get the full functionality I wanted out of my throttle.  To fully use the modes switch and get all the buttons to have different actions in different modes, requires 3rd party mapping software. 
it’s not ridiculous. It actually works quite well. I don’t know what u mean by “problem I created myself”.  The “not having to remap” risk is an added bonus and the risk of losing keybindings is real. Many have lost their key bindings after a dcs update. From what I’ve read, it’s not uncommon at all. 3rd party mapping software adds functionality that otherwise isn’t available otherwise. U may not need it or choose not to use it but that doesn’t mean that it’s not worth it to someone else.  If the virpil software or dcs could do those other things like for example, the full functionality of the mode switch, then no one would use third party software but clearly many people do so to assume it’s “ridiculous” just because u choose not to use or explore that added functionality is ridiculous. 
also having software running in the background isn’t foreign to many. I came from an x52 which has the Saitek software running in the background. It didn’t cause any problems and has a lot of added functionality is used to it’s potential. 
Fact is, your opinion is you’d and you’re welcome to it but someone choosing a more functional path is not ridiculous just because it deviates from your personal preference. 
be a little more open minded and a little less hostile in your expression of your opinion.  Criticism is rarely constructive when worded like u worded your comment.  
I’m here fire help, not ridicule. 
if u can’t or don’t want to help, then why waste either of our time and if your intention actually IS to help, then maybe try to be more constructive than destructive.  You’ll find that the results are almost always better. 

[Skwirl865]

8 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

Yah, I'd also recommend binding everything in DCS. Unless you want to do some extremely complex control mapping with multiple layers or something. It's far easier to just have DCS handle all your bindings for you in-game and then you'll never need to switch anything when you swap jets. DCS has one of the best control mapping systems of any flight sim I've used, it's actually easier than using Joystick Gremlin.

 

If you'd like to backup your control files, or transfer them to another computer, they are saved as .lua files at {username}/Saved Games/DCS[.openbeta]/Config/Input/ in folders by module and then control type. Pasting these files into this directory on any computer will instantly transfer all your bindings over, and can be used to move all your control bindings over from Stable to Open Beta as well. 

That’s the only real reason I’m using joystick gremlin. I need the complex functionality. The dcs mapping is super user friendly and I love it but 3rd party software is the only way I can do everything I’m trying to do. U called it out exactly. It’s the multiple layers that make it a necessity.  I want to fully utilize the modes switch on the virpil throttle and joystick gremlin allows u to create different modes that span across all devices. When you’re trying to learn and fly in vr, it’s having an almost unlimited number of buttons can be a huge help when trying to not to have to lift the headset to interact with the keyboard.  Up until now I was always conscious of saving a copy of my dcs profiles separately with a copy elsewhere so I wasn’t too worried about

losing them. It was just an added bonus to not have to do that even though I still probably will. 
 

[Bunny Clark]

57 minutes ago, Skwirl865 said:

That’s the only real reason I’m using joystick gremlin. I need the complex functionality. The dcs mapping is super user friendly and I love it but 3rd party software is the only way I can do everything I’m trying to do. U called it out exactly. It’s the multiple layers that make it a necessity.

Got it. There is still another way to work around that a bit easier. Rather than mapping everything to keyboard shortcuts per-module and having to change JG profiles when you change aircraft, you can remap everything to vJoy virtual device button presses. That will let you use layers to manipulate your physical device however you want and emulate a virtual device with more buttons, or multiple devices with more buttons, and still map everything on a per-module basis in DCS. 

[Skwirl865]

26 minutes ago, Bunny Clark said:

Got it. There is still another way to work around that a bit easier. Rather than mapping everything to keyboard shortcuts per-module and having to change JG profiles when you change aircraft, you can remap everything to vJoy virtual device button presses. That will let you use layers to manipulate your physical device however you want and emulate a virtual device with more buttons, or multiple devices with more buttons, and still map everything on a per-module basis in DCS. 

I hadn’t thought of that when I was doing it and tbh, though there are a good few common keyboard mappings that are basically the same from aricraft to aircraft like canopy close, THC slew and depress/lock, trigger, gear, flaps(for the most part), weapon release and stuff like that, there aren’t nearly as many as I had hoped so that wouldn’t have been a bad option and I’ll actually probably use vjoy to map the buttons I have that don’t have a keyboard command since u have to use vjoy anyway with joystick gremlin so it’s already in the device listing. I definitely don’t want to start over tho. I’ve already mapped pretty much my entire parent profile already.  It works great tho. I’m super happy with it and the hood thing is, I used the keyboard profile from “baileys voice attack” with that extensive set of keyboard commands to map my controls to so it’ll all mesh well and if Something happens to the added keybinds in dcs, they’ll always be available to download and reinstall. 
 

the mode switch is worth it for me by itself but what I’ve found to be super useful in doing what I did is on the virpil cm2 theres 6 lighted buttons on the center of the base that I mapped to f1-f12 by doing short press/long press so f1 is short press button 1 and f2 is long press button 1.  I’ve found that to be super helpful and since those buttons serve different functions in different situations, u have the functionality of probably 3x those 12 buttons in just 6 buttons without even having to use modifier buttons.  Works like a charm. All the comms commands, formations, flight attack, atc, tanker, f10 map and different views, all in those 6 buttons. 

it’s great! 
I absolutely LOVE this throttle and the fact that even tho I have a mismatched stick and throttle(vkb and virpil) that don’t necessarily work together software wise, I can still turn the mode switch on the throttle and it will change for both the stick and the throttle alike, is just amazing. 

[Skwirl865]

On 9/8/2021 at 5:15 AM, Foka said:

That's completly rediculus way to map controls. You're trying to solve problem, whichy you created yourself. Additionally you'll have another software running in the background that can crash or cause crashes.

 

Just bind your HOTAS switches directly in DCS. You'll do it once, and you're done. Now you're not saving anything.

 

PS Reinstalling DCS won't affect controls bindings, these are saved in Saved Games folder.

If it’s “a completely ridiculous way of mapping controls”, just tell me a better way of mapping all atc commands, all tanker commands, all formation commands, all inter flight(attack my target,etc), all “view” commands, f10 map and return to cockpit view, all by using only 6 physical buttons total. No modifier buttons or anything. 
 

tell me a better way of doing that without using any external software or keyboard bindings and without taking my hands off the hotas. 
 

if u can do that, I’ll concede that it’s a ridiculous way of mapping.  
 

If not, then consider that maybe other people may have intended goals that justify or require the use of things and methods different than yours and there’s nothing ridiculous about that.  It may even potentially be better once u look into it.
I know I absolutely LOVE having my f1-f12 mapped to my hotas and still have more room left than I’ll ever need.  

[Todd Down]

I think a number of the comments above are from people who have never considered or even used these apps, but feel obligated to justify their stance. My take on this 3rd Party  functionality is that you produce a profile to control one aircraft, then compare others and amend differences between the comparators (i.e the different approaches to sensor and weapons controls between F16 with long and short duration button activation, and the F18 with pre determined key results based on which other sensors are also involved, by mapping them to the keyboard using Vjoy then link the keyboard back to the HID controllers using Joystick Gremlin and emulating the original Aircraft control setup.

The comment about only being limited in the number aircraft you could control, is again not too bright. You can store profiles foe every aircraft that you have and load them in by selecting the profile needed, press the activate button on the profile and then start the A/C wanted, and that is it, done. Also, the user can increase the number of available keys and buttons by, for example, creating specific modes, say for NAV, ACM and A/G etc. and reusing keys employed in the other modes

There are some very interesting tutorials on YouTube, done by HavocCompanyClan, utilizing these concept. I will not dispute that this is a time consuming  process, but if you host more than 10 Aircraft, in, say, DCS it could pay dividends in the long term. should your S/Ware get messed up, just take out the profiles from where stored and it is returned in seconds.

[bfr]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:13 AM, Todd Down said:

I think a number of the comments above are from people who have never considered or even used these apps, but feel obligated to justify their stance. My take on this 3rd Party  functionality is that you produce a profile to control one aircraft, then compare others and amend differences between the comparators (i.e the different approaches to sensor and weapons controls between F16 with long and short duration button activation, and the F18 with pre determined key results based on which other sensors are also involved, by mapping them to the keyboard using Vjoy then link the keyboard back to the HID controllers using Joystick Gremlin and emulating the original Aircraft control setup.

The comment about only being limited in the number aircraft you could control, is again not too bright. You can store profiles foe every aircraft that you have and load them in by selecting the profile needed, press the activate button on the profile and then start the A/C wanted, and that is it, done. Also, the user can increase the number of available keys and buttons by, for example, creating specific modes, say for NAV, ACM and A/G etc. and reusing keys employed in the other modes

There are some very interesting tutorials on YouTube, done by HavocCompanyClan, utilizing these concept. I will not dispute that this is a time consuming  process, but if you host more than 10 Aircraft, in, say, DCS it could pay dividends in the long term. should your S/Ware get messed up, just take out the profiles from where stored and it is returned in seconds.

I've done similar but with Joy2Key (and previously with the bundled CH software until it became unsupported and flaky). For most modules I own I have 3 mapping profiles (one for take-off & landing, one for A/A, one for A/G) and can cycle through the respective set of 3 with one button on my stick.  Switching to a different module's set of configs is also a one click operation.  Very flexible and hasn't ever caused me any major headaches.