Limited Budget - should I go for a CPU upgrade or just suck it up?

[Boosterdog]

Sorry - its another "what should I do?" thread. 

My current system uses a 5 year old I5 6600K with a 4.3Ghz OC and a GTX 1080. I play using a 1080P monitor and, for the foreseeable, will not be changing that.  The last two years has seen DCS progress and my system's ability to run even the most basic of missions, especially low down ones, diminish.  Attached is a snapshot of the CPU and GPU use in the Mi24 instant mission PG Disaster Relief with Vsync off in order to let the horses (donkeys) run free (limp lamely) to show my agony. As I understand it, the GPU is doing what it should and running full tilt but the CPU is floundering like a fat dad in the parents race on a school sports day. Temps appear all in order and within the prescribed limits.  So, a couple of initial questions to the wise.

1) Am I reading the graph correctly? 

2) Would the £1000 I have available be well spent on a new CPU if the GTX1080 stays (1080P use only)?

Assuming the answer to 2) is "yes" or "possibly" and given the plethora of self important t-shirt and mug selling "experts" on the internet and Youtube confusing the heck out of me....

3) Would I go for a 5600X or an I5 11600K?

4) What memory would I go for each (I've read, and lost the will to live, about RAM  but somewhere in my dull little head is a voice saying "pair a Gskill Trident Z Neo 3200 CL14 32GB dual kit ((2x 16GB)) with the 5600X and worry not about the 2 v 4 sticks debate". The voice simply shrugs it shoulders and kicks it feet when it comes to the I5.

The sole use of the PC will be DCS at 1080P. No VR, no 4K but an absolute need to remain comfortably above 60 fps with room to spare. 

I should also add I not really too interested in whats around the corner. Experience has shown me there is ALWAYS something around the corner but when it comes its not available or not available at RRP and, by the time it is, something else i just around the corner. Same for VULKAN. Im sure it come but so will my demise and since I cant predict either I dont want to think about them. 

 

Thank you in advance for all and any help or advice.

 

 

[Bossco82]

Hi BoosterDog, I dont know where you are in the world to go on used prices. Have a look into this as an option,

AMD 3600, X470 mobo, 4x4 ddr4 3200 c16 or 3200 c14 if you can find or afford it. Your GTX 1080 should be good for 1080p, Its my personal opinion to lock it to 60fps Vsync for flight sims. I built this setup for a friend and its good for 1440p in DCE campaigns single player. Its locked to 4.2Ghz @ 1.2v in Ryzen Master. Works well

For DDR4 and DCS I believe for Intel the ideal solution is 32gb 3200Mhz C16 2x16 sticks. AMD 32gb 3200Mhz C14/C16 4x8gb sticks. Unless you need 64gb for intense multiplayer.

If you do want to go for new components. I run AMD 5600x, X570, 4x8gb G Skill 3200/C14. Thats all with a 6800xt and is good for 4k on high settings. So with a GTX 1080 its more than good enough for 1080p. 

Something else for you to try before spending any money though... Download MSI Afterburner Beta, you can go into the settings of Rivatuner (thats part of the software)and it can show you your CPU, GPU and Dram usage in an overlay in the game. I think the beta version can show you individual core usage on the CPU. Set Vsync to on so you run a constant 60fps. Go back and check your usage in the missions you want to fly. You will be able to see what could really be the cause of your fps drop. 

I fly down low too so I have been chasing stutters and fps drops over the past year. Like I said my setup can do 4k even down low over Dubai my 5600x never gets maxed out and I dont remember it happening to the AMD 3600 non X I had before it. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Bossco82

[Taz1004]

On 10/26/2021 at 5:30 AM, Boosterdog said:

Sorry - its another "what should I do?" thread. 

My current system uses a 5 year old I5 6600K with a 4.3Ghz OC and a GTX 1080. I play using a 1080P monitor and, for the foreseeable, will not be changing that.  The last two years has seen DCS progress and my system's ability to run even the most basic of missions, especially low down ones, diminish.  Attached is a snapshot of the CPU and GPU use in the Mi24 instant mission PG Disaster Relief with Vsync off in order to let the horses (donkeys) run free (limp lamely) to show my agony. As I understand it, the GPU is doing what it should and running full tilt but the CPU is floundering like a fat dad in the parents race on a school sports day. Temps appear all in order and within the prescribed limits.  So, a couple of initial questions to the wise.

1) Am I reading the graph correctly? 

2) Would the £1000 I have available be well spent on a new CPU if the GTX1080 stays (1080P use only)?

Assuming the answer to 2) is "yes" or "possibly" and given the plethora of self important t-shirt and mug selling "experts" on the internet and Youtube confusing the heck out of me....

3) Would I go for a 5600X or an I5 11600K?

4) What memory would I go for each (I've read, and lost the will to live, about RAM  but somewhere in my dull little head is a voice saying "pair a Gskill Trident Z Neo 3200 CL14 32GB dual kit ((2x 16GB)) with the 5600X and worry not about the 2 v 4 sticks debate". The voice simply shrugs it shoulders and kicks it feet when it comes to the I5.

The sole use of the PC will be DCS at 1080P. No VR, no 4K but an absolute need to remain comfortably above 60 fps with room to spare. 

I should also add I not really too interested in whats around the corner. Experience has shown me there is ALWAYS something around the corner but when it comes its not available or not available at RRP and, by the time it is, something else i just around the corner. Same for VULKAN. Im sure it come but so will my demise and since I cant predict either I dont want to think about them. 

 

Thank you in advance for all and any help or advice.

 

 

I was in same dilema 5 months ago and upgraded only MB, RAM, and CPU for $700 in May.  GPU remains to be GTX 1080 like you.

5600X, ASUS ROG Strix B550, and DDR4 32GB 3600MHz CL18

I went with 2 sticks of RAM for future expansion.  And I was contemplating over higher clock speed of RAM vs lower Cas Latency but I saw a comparison video on YouTube that convinced me to get highest clock speed for the money regardless of CL.

Overall, I do not regret.  In DCS, yes it only marginally improves higher end of frame rate.  It doesn't let me enable any more graphic settings or increase resolution.  But it greatly improves lower end performance with same setting.  Doesn't stutter flying over dense areas anymore.

If you're getting Ryzen, get better CPU cooler.  Mine was throttling back due to higher temp with stock cooler and was a cause for stutter in DCS.  Also if you're switching from Intel, some of the BIOS setting may be confusing at first.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Taz1004

[Boosterdog]

Thank you for your replies and some affirmation of my own thoughts!  The Graph is (I think) RIVA beta but I'll be damned if I can get it to tell me anything meaningful other than "get new gear" :-).  What it does tell me is that DCS behaves like no other title in terms of not letting go of RAM, hogging VRAM and generally thrashing everything it can.

Taking the great advice offered Im going to opt for a 5600X paired with an MSI Tomahawk X570 MB (my M2s are both 4th Gen so why not?) and a decent 2X16GB of CL16 3600 RAM (I cant bring myself to spend on 4X 8GB sticks in the sure knowledge that it wont be long before DCS will need 64GB and am probably not clever or patient enough to max out a CL14 kit, so Ill soak the hit and get another set down the road). Obviously the Gskill Trident Z neo is the product oft touted but, at 51, I really want to leave the RGB lightshow in my lad's room and feel the less flub there is in terms of additional software required, the better. The RipJaws appear to be come in the same spec but nowhere can I find anything in the marketing blurb about them being optimised for Ryzen. I stopped reading tests though when one stated they couldnt recommend the RipJaws due to their limited colour availablity! 

Cooling wise, I am tempted by the big Nocturas but will likely go mid range with a Pure Rock 2 as I wont be doing any manual OCs but may shove some Noctura case fans in. Call be old skool but electricity and water an not great bed fellows so its air all the way. 

All told then about £750 if Im clever and patient with purchasing. 

Down the line in the months to come I may eventually pair them with a 3070Ti (price dependent) or even a used 2080Ti from CEX so my lad can play his AAA titles with my old 1080. 

Thanks again for you help fellas. 

 

 

[Boosterdog]

£250 for 32GB of Gskill Dual Stacked CL16 16 16 36 3600 Ram - ouch!  Its like 2008 all over again!

It had better boot!

[Bossco82]

Regarding the GPU if you can get a 3070ti for close to MRSP then go for it. Having owned a 2080ti, its so close in performance to a 3080 and a 6800xt in DCS, only DCS. In other games the 3080/6800xt can be a lot faster but in DCS not that much. If you can get a used 2080ti on eBay or CEX for a good price go for it. Especially, if its an aftermarket Asus or MSI etc. The coolers are beefy and you don't have to worry if someone has mined with it. They are really solid cards.

[Boosterdog]

8 minutes ago, Bossco82 said:

Regarding the GPU if you can get a 3070ti for close to MRSP then go for it. Having owned a 2080ti, its so close in performance to a 3080 and a 6800xt in DCS, only DCS. In other games the 3080/6800xt can be a lot faster but in DCS not that much. If you can get a used 2080ti on eBay or CEX for a good price go for it. Especially, if its an aftermarket Asus or MSI etc. The coolers are beefy and you don't have to worry if someone has mined with it. They are really solid cards.

2080Tis are £875 in CEX with a 2 year warranty. Id get about £260 for my 1080 according to they and they have been fair in the past but Id want to see the brand.  MSI 3070ti going for £1100.  I think the 2080ti will be on in a couple of months but right now Im still smarting from the £700 hole in my bank account. 

[Taz1004]

12 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

£250 for 32GB of Gskill Dual Stacked CL16 16 16 36 3600 Ram - ouch!  Its like 2008 all over again!

It had better boot!

That's $344 USD.  The set I got, 32GB of 3600MHz CL18 is $132 USD right now.  I actually paid $170 5 months ago...

TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR4 32GB (2x16GB) 3600MHz (PC4-28800) CL18 Desktop Gaming Memory Module Ram TF3D432G3600HC18JDC01 - Black at Amazon.com

Is CL16 it worth $200 over CL18?

For me, computer upgrade is always maximizing what I can get for my money.  Can you spend that $200 elsewhere and get better performance than 2 less CL?

[Bossco82]

I think he might have bought this kit already Taz...

As for the 2080ti, try to go for one of the higher spec EVGA, MSI or Asus ones. I had a MSI Gaming X Trio and it was awesome. Put it this way my 6800xt is better. However if I had been able to see how much of a difference before I bought one.  I might not have bothered changing. It basically made the Track IR 100% smooth when flying in the weeds. The nicer after market 2080ti's undervolt and overclock better. Mine did 1950mhz on 0.950mv making it never limited by temps. Either way a 2080ti will be absolutely indulgent overkill for 1080p, not break a sweat at 1440p and 4k possible.

 

 

 

[Boosterdog]

6 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

4 hours ago, Bossco82 said:

 try to go for one of the higher spec EVGA, MSI or Asus ones. I had a MSI Gaming X Trio and it was awesome.  Either way a 2080ti will be absolutely indulgent overkill for 1080p, not break a sweat at 1440p and 4k possible.

Can you spend that $200 elsewhere and get better performance than 2 less CL?

Yup the buttons have all been pressed. I did look at other kits but I had a budget and the more expensive kit came within it. I did have my reasons such as it being dual ranked and tighter in timing overall, it being a good compromise of speed and latency and it being listed on the Msi compatibility as being acceptable for 4 dims on the board. Is it worth the extra? I genuinely would not know but I had itchy fingers and hype probably got to me! 
 

I will try and hold out for an msi gaming X. the 1080 I have is gaming X and it is a great card. And an indulgence today may be the bare minimum requirement for the next patch!!! 
 

Thanks again for all your help and advice.  
 

 
 

[Bossco82]

HI Boosterdog,

I have never used CEX and I am sure the 2 year warranty is very tempting. I sold my MSI 2080ti Gaming X on eBay for £800 and it was in as new mint condition. Might be worth keeping your eye out. Also If you look at MSI GTX 1080's on eBay they sell for about £350 plus at the moment, if you got that on one the 80% off final selling fee weekends it might work out better. Just a thought mate, best of luck getting your setup how you want it.

[Boosterdog]

19 minutes ago, Bossco82 said:

HI Boosterdog,

I have never used CEX and I am sure the 2 year warranty is very tempting. I sold my MSI 2080ti Gaming X on eBay for £800 and it was in as new mint condition. Might be worth keeping your eye out. Also If you look at MSI GTX 1080's on eBay they sell for about £350 plus at the moment, if you got that on one the 80% off final selling fee weekends it might work out better. Just a thought mate, best of luck getting your setup how you want it.

Thank you Bossco, Ill keep an eye out for those weekends. I only paid £470 for it thanks to a pricing error by Scan which they gracefully honoroed (and which I've repaid with loyality!!). Im kinda excited but a same time naffed off as the money was going to go on a couple more modules (mossie and apache) and some new outboard gear but since I cant fly on any map but the Caucauses and (mostly) PG at decent settings even in stable, I think a system upgrade is due. Dont expect miracles by retaining the 1080 for now but hopefully in due course with a new(er) GPU also installed I may be able to stop chasing frames for a while and maybe even up the settings a little. 

Its a shame that the sim requires a nuclear option to run it. I really feel for those who have crap exchange rates or stupidly high import taxes (or just familes and other demands). I think theres enough politics going on after 2.7.7 about priorities but improvements to the core are really needed more than ever otherwise a large swathe of the player base will simply be lost in the arms race.

Ironic that ED has decided to bring out a module named after an indigenous people heavily persecuted and exploited by get rich quick scalpers in these times....  

[Bossco82]

Ok, when you have your new CPU, Mobo and Dram setup and stable try a few things out to see how much your GTX 1080 is actually struggling at 1080p. Like I said a 2080ti is good for 4k. If your sticking to 1080p a 2060/2070 Super or AMD 5700xt would be enough, I know Ive installed and tested them at that resolution for friends builds. I had a 5700xt and a 1080p screen and it ran great at high-ish settings. I remember it certainly looked good but I cant remember if I used 2x or 4x MSAA. Its only when I went and bought a 4k screen things got difficult maintaining 60 fps. Its a tricky balance because you use more anti aliasing at lower resolutions but you dont really need it at 4k as all it does then is reduce shimmering on distant objects. It obviously reduces any jagged lines but the question is can you even see them at 4k on a 32" or below monitor. However as you increase the resolution you need more Vram so therefore you need the higher end GPU's. 

Get MSI Afterburner installed with the overlay setup properly. Plenty of Youtube guides on that. Load up "something" like FA-18 instant action free flight over Persian Gulf and see whats happening especially on approach into Dubai. See what settings work to maintain a solid 60fps. I reckon the textures on high, MSAA x2 and SSAA off would be a start and work from there comparing the impact your settings have on your usage. Point Blank does some good, helpful, optimisation videos on Youtube regarding all this. You can also search on Youtube for DCS using "any GPU" see how it performs.

After that also try an overclock/undervolt curve in MSi Afterburner, this really helped my 2080ti.

It took some effort to get my GPU and game setting right but its worth it. Best of luck dude.

[Boosterdog]

I have both afterburner beta and Riva so I will do some playing once the new CPU is up and running. Ill have a look at those videos of Point Blank to. I issue isnt really getting a solid 60 but a solid 80 given the impacts that triggered actions in mission scripts can have.

Ill start off low and work up.

 

Thanks bubby.  

[Bossco82]

Triggered actions in mission scripts, ah that sounds like the CPU is being impacted for that one. You might not have that problem with a 5600x installed.

You can try this with it though. Install Ryzen Master and try locking it to 4.6Ghz @1.2-1.25v. Might help with any temp issues. 4.6Ghz is more than enough when I'm in DCS rarely goes over 4.2 unless its actually loading a mission up. Also I get this with my MSI X570 mobo, put in your ddr4 settings manually. So enable XMP, set speed to ddr 3600 and fsb 1800 then set voltage for ddr to 1.35v. Mine wont work properly without me doing that.

If I'm sharing anything you already know, my apologies, just trying to help out by sharing the mistakes I made with mine.

[Boosterdog]

2 hours ago, Bossco82 said:

Triggered actions in mission scripts, ah that sounds like the CPU is being impacted for that one. You might not have that problem with a 5600x installed.

You can try this with it though. Install Ryzen Master and try locking it to 4.6Ghz @1.2-1.25v. Might help with any temp issues. 4.6Ghz is more than enough when I'm in DCS rarely goes over 4.2 unless its actually loading a mission up. Also I get this with my MSI X570 mobo, put in your ddr4 settings manually. So enable XMP, set speed to ddr 3600 and fsb 1800 then set voltage for ddr to 1.35v. Mine wont work properly without me doing that.

If I'm sharing anything you already know, my apologies, just trying to help out by sharing the mistakes I made with mine.

Ive not owed an AMD processor since the FX55 back in 2004 so the more help the better as i am a little awed by the changes in the way stuff works. Ive seen a lot about undervolting it using the Master software (and POB??) so its something Im going to certaily try. Ive aslo bought a decent Lan Li 215 airflow case, recommended by Nexus Gaming so I may, just end up RGB-ing the crap outta it too! Shown the missus pictures of it next to plant pot but shes still insistent its remains in the cupboard. 

[Taz1004]

2 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

Ive not owed an AMD processor since the FX55 back in 2004 so the more help the better as i am a little awed by the changes in the way stuff works. Ive seen a lot about undervolting it using the Master software (and POB??) so its something Im going to certaily try. Ive aslo bought a decent Lan Li 215 airflow case, recommended by Nexus Gaming so I may, just end up RGB-ing the crap outta it too! Shown the missus pictures of it next to plant pot but shes still insistent its remains in the cupboard. 

You sound pretty knowledgeable so you should be able to figure it out quick but below is the debacle I went through 5 months ago.  There's YouTube video in the middle of the post about undervolting which I eventually settled with.  There's Precision Boost Overdrive, Precision Boost, and Precision Boost 2 all different thing.  Then there's CPU Boost... AMD must love the term "Boost".  I'm sure Boosterdog should feel right at home 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Taz1004

[Boosterdog]

Thanks again Taz and Bossco! I would say Ive been tinkering for many years but Im not knowledgable. Managed to brick a flash drive this afternoon and we wont mention the 2060, MB and RAM i killed a couple of years back with a ham fisted hacked power connection!!

After a little buggering about tonight Im pretty certain that undervolting my 1080 is not an option as I need every frame and the heat throttle reduction just doesnt equate to what maxing the power and temp limits plus a 100/500 OC gives (and can be controlled to a stable 70 degrees even in my old Lan Boy box). But it was a good learning excercise.

There is a small amount of throttling from the 2050 max clock (down to 2025-2012) but this equate to a single frame per second. Undervolting takes a frame away from the base score whilst the OC adds 6 frames per second (again nothing really unexpected) to it. Im hoping to get that frame lost to the throttling back with the new case although it it wasnt the reason I bought it. These OC setting are well within what Ive seen done to the MSI Gaming X I have so should be stable. A different card with some headroom will likely be a different story and I will return to the undervolt then. 

When it comes to the 5600X however, everthing Ive seen from the sources I trust say PBO2 and undervolting is the way forward so thats the direction Ill head, at least intially. 

I really appreacite the adivce given by you both. Its given me the push I needed to start an upgrade Ive been putting off for a year. 

[Bossco82]

A super quick way to setup your 5600x and undervolt it at the same time.

Open Ryzen Master and select a profile 1 or 2 doesn't matter. At the top select manual overclocking. It might want to restart, thats fine. Then set all six cores to 4600 and lock the voltage to 1.25v. I can do 1.2v on mine but start there. Select Apply & test at the bottom. Load DCS and see how it goes. Its an easy way of seeing what your CPU can do while in Windows without having to mess in the Bios. 

The only thing you should have to change in the bios is your DDR4 settings. Its sometimes more reliable than letting the bios auto manage it via XMP alone.

My 5600x runs DCS much better with this locked in via Ryzen Master than if I leave it to its own devices. Doesn't matter so much for other games.

[Taz1004]

44 minutes ago, Bossco82 said:

A super quick way to setup your 5600x and undervolt it at the same time.

Open Ryzen Master and select a profile 1 or 2 doesn't matter. At the top select manual overclocking. It might want to restart, thats fine. Then set all six cores to 4600 and lock the voltage to 1.25v. I can do 1.2v on mine but start there. Select Apply & test at the bottom. Load DCS and see how it goes. Its an easy way of seeing what your CPU can do while in Windows without having to mess in the Bios. 

The only thing you should have to change in the bios is your DDR4 settings. Its sometimes more reliable than letting the bios auto manage it via XMP alone.

My 5600x runs DCS much better with this locked in via Ryzen Master than if I leave it to its own devices. Doesn't matter so much for other games.

As pointed out by OptimumTech Video, simply lowering the voltage (which was what I was doing at first) is not same thing as PBO2 undervolting.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Taz1004

[Bossco82]

Taz no doubt your right mate. I had a dabble with pbo2 undervolting. I didn't seem to get any extra performance/lower temps out of it myself. Not sure if I got it wrong. 

My 5600x came up as a golden sample so I locked those settings into Ryzen Master. 

Ill check that video out to see if there is something I'm missing.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Bossco82

[Boosterdog]

5 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

As pointed out by OptimumTech Video, simply lowering the voltage (which was what I was doing at first) is not same thing as PBO2 undervolting.

That’s the tutorial I’ve saved as a reference . He makes a lot of sense and explains it really well.  

 

 

[Boosterdog]

Post a little update for any who may follow:

In the end I went over and above what I had intended and added a case and new Corsair RM850X to the build. 

Build Experience

The Lancool 2015 case is a big step up from my 2004 Lanboy and looks nice, has decent features, good airflow and prduces a clean build. Downsides are few but it is a little rough in places (coarse screws, very mirnor sharp punch throughs on the perforated psu block cover but its minor. 

The MSI Z570 tomahawk board seems ok although I did notice more flex in this board that my old Asus Z170 pro gaming so id be reculant at doing too much prodding and poking once its installed in the case.  

The Artic Esports Due cooler is vague having come from the coolermaster 212 Evo. Firstly it doesnt cover the whole chip (apparently it just doesnt) which made me nervous and applying the MX5 unsatisfactorally messy on first attempt. Secondly there is really no clear instruction on how tight "tight" is. Various sources state thumb tight whilst the artic site shows the use of a screw driver. In the end, and having the measuring tools avaiilable I worked out that tightening the screws fully up the the stops on the risers supplied was probably the best and effectively guarded agains crushing the chip whilst providing an even "squish" of the paste.  The fitting of the fans, for a noob, was agains at first a little vague but a few mins trial and error sorted it. 

The Gskill RAM worked. And it changes colour a lot. Its RAM, bloody expensive RAM, but still RAM (Yawn). It does its XMP advertised without issue as I would expect from a B die product. 

Corsair RM850X - all the reviews say it good and I guess it is. 

Booting

I had hoped to keep the old PC running as a back up until I was sure the new one worked however the Tomahawk came with a preinstalled chip from AWD-IT (for a good bundle price) and although the bios is all up to date the minor drawback was that the board went VGA error (regardless of CMOS resets)and wouldnt boot into bios until I installed the GTX1080. Once installed however it booted fine. As per usual the internet was sodding useless at helping me with the issue so Im just happy it was a simple fix. I can only assume it was reslutant from the tests run prior to shipping but this IS an MSI board so who knows. 

Windows install - I hate windows. It ignores my requests to be left the F alone like my son does and treats me like one of those vacuous internet nomark bloggers with its assumptions about what I want...  

Optimisation - I looked through various guides but, frankly, all had something that made me go "hmmm" be it turning off the firewall, enabling game mode and GPU scheduling or or running large batch files with uncertain consequences.  So I kept it to the minimum for now. Power, drivers and Afteburner. 

Getting back to DCS - I has prepared, really I had. And i'd rehearsed. But it all went to rat shit and in the end, with the exception of some saved controller files, I am reinstalling everything from scratch to ensure its all as fresh as possible (latest TIR drivers.......from 2005...lazy c....s). Thankfully what I had saved did save me some time in working out what went where when it came to relocating profiles for the TIR and TARGET software although an idiotic and bad tempered "delete" managed to lose every password I had carefully curated. 

Anyhow - thats the experience so far which has been selfishly typed up in order to occupy myself whilst the 232GB OB update occurs (@7.1mb/s).

Ill post the experience with DCS later (I dont expect miracles - the build is really only laying the foundations for a new GPU)

[Boosterdog]

So- final verdict 

Overall there is very little difference for my £800. Fortunatley I have managed expectations and this build is a step towards a better GPU whilst donating a still decent rig for my lad to do his schoolwork on as well as play his optimised AAA games. 

That its come into this world at the time of a particularily cranky 2.7.7 OB hasnt helped and loosing 20 fps from the 2.7.6 Stable has possibly taken away from many instances where a little more CPU agility may have resulted in a better experience. Sadly I stupily updated the stable then deleted it.  

Anyhow - here are the take aways -

the whole rig runs 20 degree cooler than my OC'd 6600K. By my calculation this means the last remaining polar bear will be able to stand on the last remaing sliver of ice for 0.0000000000006 seconds more than he dared hoped before.  

The cooler case helped my GPU temps and allowed me to retain a whole 2 extra fps in DCS as its boost clock stayed at 2050 over the previous average of around the 2000 mark.

The more challenging missions do run a little smoother but are still far from great experiences. Something Im particualy annoyed with the latest OB for as I think they would have run much better with the new processor reducing the occasions lows had the fps reduction not have happened and more those lows and almost permanet feature.  

The best all core PBO curve I obtained was an offset of -20 and, given I've now deveolped an intermitted glitch with the perviously solid warthog throttle disconnecting I feel it may be lower than that. 

The change does provide a noticable uplift in other sims. A few extra frames are apparent but the overall increase in smoothness in heavy scenes where the old rig struggled a little is satisfying to observe. 

The glowing ram is oddly entertaining but, on balance not woth £800 on its own

The general operation of windows doesnt feel any more agile than on my previous "optimised" (hacked) rig.

So............should I have bought a 2080ti or 3070 instead?  For me Im happy I did the CPU first even if its all a bit "jam tomorrow" as it awaits a suitable GPU. It gives me time to settle into getting it running well and fault find the glitching peripherals before that glorious day.  But probably yes, a GPU upgrade, abeit another £300 more after adding the PSU and case, would have likely yeilded more instant gratification and a good few more, much needed frames per second.