Tuuvas' Wishlist for Better Gamepad Controller Support

[Tuuvas]

Below are a few items I think would add a huge benefit to gamepad users (and even other types of controller users) in DCS:

1. Add Mouse Movement Binding Options to Axis Commands (along with sensitivity sliders).  This adds two major benefits:
   1. Considering we already have the ability to bind Left and Right Mouse Click, also adding Mouse X/Y control with a gamepad axis would enhance this further by allowing the player to interact with the majority of cockpit controls.
   2. A "free" by-product of this is the introduction of Relative Camera controls when used in conjunction with "Force Cursor On/Off".  Toggling Cursor On/Off would allow the player to switch between Cursor control and Relative Camera movement.  Currently only Absolute Camera movement is possible.
2. Allow UI Layer Actions to Double Bind with Modifier Assignments.  Since modifiers by themselves don't actually do anything, it should be safe to allow them to also function as Left/Right Mouse Click as desired, especially when used in conjunction with "Force Cursor On/Off".  This can be a confusing topic, so feel free to reach out to me for clarification.  Example: Left Bumper set to Mouse Right Click, UI Layer modifier, and module modifier all at the same time.
3. Allow Mouse Scroll Up and Down to be Bound to an Axis (along with sensitivity sliders).  This should cover missing cockpit intractability when trying to click and drag items like the Hornet's Radar Altimeter knob or the Viper's Backup ADI knob.

With the above additions, gamepad users will be able to fully utilize even full fidelity aircraft.  For more details on why this is beneficial, see the below video I put together for this very same wishlist:

DCS definitely is not "meant" or designed to be played with a console mindset; however, despite that I've found ways to make a gamepad completely viable.  As a result I was able to, ironically, eliminate one of the major barriers of entry for this free-to-play game: cost.

In my opinion, no one should have to invest hundreds of dollars into flying-themed gaming controllers just to even play DCS. What if they find out they don't like DCS after all? It's not like they'll be able to play racing games, fighting games, or first person shooters with a low-to-mid level HOTAS at $169.59 USD. At least they can still use that gamepad they have lying around; or alternatively, maybe one day they'll find they love DCS so much that they're willing to purchase a high-end HOTAS. Just so they can play DCS the way it's intended.

My goal is to open up DCS to as many people as possible. The more people that play DCS, the more potential there is for money flowing into DCS, which results in more development towards DCS by Eagle Dynamics and 3rd Parties. Heck, even HOTAS makers would benefit from a larger player pool.

People just need to be shown that DCS is accessible in the first place. It's hard, sure, but at least accessible.

___________________________________________________________________

See the below link for my album of Xbox Controller Layouts:

https://imgur.com/a/0y4YsYp

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tuuvas

[Ash Lynx]

You can play DCS with a Keyboard and mouse as well. One advantage being the amount of binds you can have. But I have been flying with keyboard and mouse since the start of playing DCS. I really do support the sentiment of getting as many people into DCS, more revenue allowing for the ED and 3rd party teams to expand or other 3rd parties getting interested in developing for DCS. Plus we get more players and more servers getting more people on them. 

[Lace]

I've posted this before, but this is my Viper XBox map which I use when away from my 'pit.

It is actually quite a versatile tool and with some imaginative mapping and modifiers you can still be close to 100% combat effective when compared to a 'proper' HOTAS.

Obviously the LMB/RMB combined with the VR cursor removes the requirement to map the non-HOTAS controls, like gear handles, canopy switches, MFD OSBs etc.

 

[Tuuvas]

1 hour ago, Lace said:

I've posted this before, but this is my Viper XBox map which I use when away from my 'pit.

It is actually quite a versatile tool and with some imaginative mapping and modifiers you can still be close to 100% combat effective when compared to a 'proper' HOTAS.

Obviously the LMB/RMB combined with the VR cursor removes the requirement to map the non-HOTAS controls, like gear handles, canopy switches, MFD OSBs etc.

 

Wow that's some great work, I'm glad there's other people putting together similar layouts and sharing them!  Which reminds me... before I forget, here's a link to my whole album of Xbox Controller Layouts for different DCS modules:

https://imgur.com/a/0y4YsYp

If anyone has any questions, feel free to reach out and I'll do my best to clarify anything.

[Lace]

8 minutes ago, Tuuvas said:

Wow that's some great work, I'm glad there's other people putting together similar layouts and sharing them!  Which reminds me... before I forget, here's a link to my whole album of Xbox Controller Layouts for different DCS modules:

https://imgur.com/a/0y4YsYp

If anyone has any questions, feel free to reach out and I'll do my best to clarify anything.

Thanks.  I have similar ones for my most flown types.  The blue boxes are controls which are common to all types (or very close in functionality), the white boxes are a/c specific.  Makes remembering the mapping a little easier.

[Tuuvas]

I've recently purchased a DualSense controller to see what kind of challenges the PlayStation people are running into.  Turns out the L2 and R2 triggers are completely different axes (unlike the Xbox LT and RT being the top and bottom halves of a single axis), and currently it's impossible to bind them properly to the Rudder axis.

I'm not entirely sure what can be done to allow PlayStation controllers to work properly, but here's some spitball ideas:

• Add individual "Rudder Left" and "Rudder Right" axes.
• Under Axis Tune, allow the Saturation X and Y sliders to invert.  For example, they currently go 0 to 100, but perhaps allow them to invert by going from -100 to 0 to 100?  This likely isn't the correct way to go about it...
• Alternative to #2 above, maybe instead have an "invert Saturation" checkbox?
• ... more ideas to come with further testing

But either way, our PlayStation gamepad users have definitely drawn the short straw when it comes to these trigger axes.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Tuuvas

[Lace]

15 hours ago, Tuuvas said:

I've recently purchased a DualSense controller to see what kind of challenges the PlayStation people are running into.  Turns out the L2 and R2 triggers are completely different axes (unlike the Xbox LT and RT being the top and bottom halves of a single axis), and currently it's impossible to bind them properly to the Rudder axis.

I'm not entirely sure what can be done to allow PlayStation controllers to work properly, but here's some spitball ideas:

• Add individual "Rudder Left" and "Rudder Right" axes.
• Under Axis Tune, allow the Saturation X and Y sliders to invert.  For example, they currently go 0 to 100, but perhaps allow them to invert by going from -100 to 0 to 100?  This likely isn't the correct way to go about it...
• Alternative to #2 above, maybe instead have an "invert Saturation" checkbox?
• ... more ideas to come with further testing

But either way, our PlayStation gamepad users have definitely drawn the short straw when it comes to these trigger axes.

 

 

I'm of the exact opposite opinion.  My old genuine Microsoft XBox controller also sees the LT RT as separate axis.  This allows full travel on each one, so left and right wheel brakes can be mapped, each side can be modified to TGP zoom, RADAR elevation etc, with full axis travel and single finger operation.  I use the left stick X axis as rudder, which does work as a single axis.  I have tried other controllers (RAZER, XBox clones) and found the common trigger axis was less customisable for DCS and returned or binned them.

So you may consider it a short straw, but I see it as a better design implementation, and one I actively seek out in a controller.

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Lace said:

So you may consider it a short straw, but I see it as a better design implementation, and one I actively seek out in a controller.

The short straw is in the form of DCS not accommodating the controller due to the way the controller treats it axes. In the years that I have owned and seen people try to bind rudder to that specific relatively popular controller, not once have I ever seen someone be able to do it natively without third party tools.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bailey

[Tuuvas]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:51 AM, Lace said:

I'm of the exact opposite opinion.  My old genuine Microsoft XBox controller also sees the LT RT as separate axis.  This allows full travel on each one, so left and right wheel brakes can be mapped, each side can be modified to TGP zoom, RADAR elevation etc, with full axis travel and single finger operation.  I use the left stick X axis as rudder, which does work as a single axis.  I have tried other controllers (RAZER, XBox clones) and found the common trigger axis was less customisable for DCS and returned or binned them.

So you may consider it a short straw, but I see it as a better design implementation, and one I actively seek out in a controller.

Understandable.  If you've already got your controller setup the way you want it, then there's no need to change anything.  It would be especially bad if DCS modified controller behavior so much that it breaks your particular setup.

That said, although I personally still think PlayStation gamepad owners have drawn the short straw, the suggestions I proposed above shouldn't affect users who like the individual L2 R2 axes setup.

In the meantime, I've put together a workaround using DS4Windows and a virtual Xbox 360 for Windows device.

https://youtu.be/iWUSGduasVk

Edited December 1, 2021 by Tuuvas

[Lace]

Another thing I have found is that with some of the cheaper Microsoft XBox controller clones is that DCS does not recognise the 'Back' or 'Start' button pushes, which I use as modifiers, therefore massively reducing their usefulness.