Vikhr is not great

[masonator]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the Ka50, but I do find that the weapons systems are not great compared to, say, the AGM-114 Hellfire. Here's one case:

 

I am at a hover laying waste to an insurgent position, and I spot the very top of a T55 behind the burnt out husk of a transport truck. Now, I can see enough of the tank to get a Shkval lockup, but I missile away, and the missile impacts the wreck. I try a second time: no dice...again an impact on the wreck.

 

I am reminded of the AGM-114 / Apache "Lock on after lock (LOAL)" mode, which launches the hellfire high up to drop down on it's target. That would be perfect for this scenario.

 

It wasn't *that* big of a deal, I just turned off radar alt hold and hover-climbed to 400meters and fired from up there. But I would really not want to do that if there were enemy fast movers in the area.

 

Don't hate on me, but I *do* think that the Hellfire is superior to the Vikhr...

 

Thoughts?

[EvilBivol-1]

A different conclusion to the cost/effectiveness dilemma adopted by most Soviet-era technologies.

[masonator]

A different conclusion to the cost/effectiveness dilemma adopted by most Soviet-era technologies.

 

Fair enough. Is the Vikhr a lot cheaper than Hellfire? And does anybody know if the Russians are working on a Vikhr replacement that is closer to the performance of Hellfire / Brimstone / HOT?

[GGTharos]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the Ka50, but I do find that the weapons systems are not great compared to, say, the AGM-114 Hellfire. Here's one case:

 

You haven't seen a hellfire miss.

 

 

I am reminded of the AGM-114 / Apache "Lock on after lock (LOAL)" mode, which launches the hellfire high up to drop down on it's target. That would be perfect for this scenario.

 

... yet completely useless if a good deal of the laser spot ends up on that wreck or anywhere else but your target for that matter - and this is by no means impossible to achieve. A lot of existing simulators do not simulate laser spotlighting.

 

It wasn't *that* big of a deal, I just turned off radar alt hold and hover-climbed to 400meters and fired from up there. But I would really not want to do that if there were enemy fast movers in the area.

 

Why not just hover off to one side a bit ... fix that parallax issue. ;)

 

Don't hate on me, but I *do* think that the Hellfire is superior to the Vikhr...

 

Of that there is no question.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

I have found that the spiraling flight path of the Vikhr sometimes puts it into the ground short of the target if launched from tree top height as well. I came to the same conclusion...had to climb a bit to give it more angle. It also seems to take two of them to kill some MBT's including the M1 Abrams. Oh well...eventually ED will give us the AH-64..... :-)

[AlphaOneSix]

I am reminded of the AGM-114 / Apache "Lock on after lock (LOAL)" mode, which launches the hellfire high up to drop down on it's target.

 

It actually does this in LOBL mode as well, just not quite as high.

[masonator]

It actually does this in LOBL mode as well, just not quite as high.

 

Good point, and I realize that LOAL is actually there to allow the Apache to launch the 114 from behind cover, and then unmask just before strike to minimize their exposure to threats...

 

I have found that the spiraling flight path of the Vikhr sometimes puts it into the ground short of the target if launched from tree top height as well. I came to the same conclusion...had to climb a bit to give it more angle. It also seems to take two of them to kill some MBT's including the M1 Abrams. Oh well...eventually ED will give us the AH-64..... :-)

 

Yeah, I've found the same things as well. I'm fighting mostly against insurgents these days...those T55s will go up after one hit.

[EvilBivol-1]

Fair enough. Is the Vikhr a lot cheaper than Hellfire?

I don't have actual cost numbers on hand, but in general, yes and not only as an individual missile, but as an anti-tank system overall, including the laser and guidance systems. The Vikhr missile has no seeker. In fact, it knows nothing of the target. It just tries to fly down the center of the laser grid formed by the "Prichal" laser system in the helicopter.

[Fudd]

Do you have any other info on the Prichal system, EB?

 

I was curious to know what the wavelength of the laser is.

[masonator]

I don't have actual cost numbers on hand, but in general, yes and not only as an individual missile, but as an anti-tank system overall, including the laser and guidance systems. The Vikhr missile has no seeker. In fact, it knows nothing of the target. It just tries to fly down the center of the laser grid formed by the "Prichal" laser system in the helicopter.

 

I've found this:

http://www.pmulcahy.com/atgm/russian_atgm.htm

 

If you scroll down to "AT-16 Scallion" (the NATO name for Vikhr), you can see the costs. There seem to be different types of missiles ranging price from $2700 - $35000.

[EvilBivol-1]

Do you have any other info on the Prichal system, EB?

 

I was curious to know what the wavelength of the laser is.

No, I don't think I have any such details. The only other interesting piece of information I have is that it can fire various types of emissions, including the dynamic grid for Vikhr guidance (dynamic, because the angles are narrowed as the missile travels away from the chopper to ensure the angular dimensions of the grid remain constant around the missile), a single beam for laser range-finding and a single beam for SAL guidance.

 

The single beam laser range-finding is used to measure range to target. It is fired automatically in "Auto-Track" mode (for 3 or 8 seconds, depending on the range to target). It's fired manually in the "Target Sight" mode. In "Target Sight" mode, the laser is active as long as the pilot holds down the LOCK button ("ENTER"), which keeps the HUD pipper updated with accurate range info. The laser then cools. The laser spot mode is used to guide SAL missiles (Kh-25) and is selected by the switch under the HSI.

Edited December 3, 2008 by EvilBivol-1

[AlphaOneSix]

That website is source info for a pen and paper role playing game called Twilight:2000 and the prices don't necessarily have anything whatsoever to do with reality.

 

Just as an example, it cites the unit cost for the AGM-114A/B/C as $1658, while it is actually between $50,000 and $70,000.