Ai F-4G and ef-4C wild weasel.

[upyr1]

I don't think we will ever have a flyable weasel however regular Phantoms operated along side the weasels. So I thought maybe we could have an AI weasel that gives us the range and barring to a radar so we can attack them.

[izzyssm]

I was bummed we weren't going to be getting the wild weasel variant. Maybe someday we'll get the century series aircraft and use them. 

[carss]

Would certainly love to escort a Wild Weasel Phantom with my own Phantom in DCS, +1 from me

 

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, izzyssm said:

I was bummed we weren't going to be getting the wild weasel variant. Maybe someday we'll get the century series aircraft and use them. 

I doubt we are due to the fact EW is one of the most classified part of warfare. I could be wrong but even if I am I think an AI Weasel would a good way to get the G int the game ASAP

[Rick50]

 

Well... I agree... but then, I was also fairly uncertain that the Phantom could even be brought to DCS in high fidellity, so it's nice to be pleasantly surprised! 

 

EW is definately quite classified, but that MIGHT not be a showstopper for a DCS full fidelity module. HeatBlur might be able to find a convincing workaround to the classified stuff and give a good experience for a Weasel after all. Not saying it's likely, but I think it might be possible!

 

[TLTeo]

Rather than hope for some HB style workaround, I think a more realistic prospect is to just give it time. HB have their hands full with the F-4E, Typhoon, Intruder and naval Phantoms (and attached assets). By that time there's a non zero chance that EW will have been overhauled completely. The moment that overhaul happens I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing some EW oriented modules be worked on.

In the meantime, honestly the DCS AI is simple enough that just taking an AI F-4E, giving it a Wild Weasel paint job, and loading it with Shrikes will come as close as a DCS AI can anyway. There's relatively little to gain by developing a whole new AI asset when they could spend the same resources and make Drakens or Intruders instead.

Edited February 2, 2022 by TLTeo

[upyr1]

19 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

Well... I agree... but then, I was also fairly uncertain that the Phantom could even be brought to DCS in high fidellity, so it's nice to be pleasantly surprised! 

 

EW is definately quite classified, but that MIGHT not be a showstopper for a DCS full fidelity module. HeatBlur might be able to find a convincing workaround to the classified stuff and give a good experience for a Weasel after all. Not saying it's likely, but I think it might be possible!

 

When the F-14 came out I figured an F-4 would probably happen since we had mutlicrew. I don't know if there is enough open source information about EW to put together a reasonable weasel but either way an AI weasel would be good add on.

15 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Rather than hope for some HB style workaround, I think a more realistic prospect is to just give it time. HB have their hands full with the F-4E, Typhoon, Intruder and naval Phantoms (and attached assets). By that time there's a non zero chance that EW will have been overhauled completely. The moment that overhaul happens I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing some EW oriented modules be worked on.

In the meantime, honestly the DCS AI is simple enough that just taking an AI F-4E, giving it a Wild Weasel paint job, and loading it with Shrikes will come as close as a DCS AI can anyway. There's relatively little to gain by developing a whole new AI asset when they could spend the same resources and make Drakens or Intruders instead.

 

There is an IAD module in the works that will improve the EW AI.  Simply loading up Shrikes on an E wouldn't be a good simulation of a Weasel. At the minimum it would need to fire the STARM and HARM. Though ideally the AI would at like it had a HTS pod since that is supposed to be an AI EWO in real life

[Rick50]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:36 PM, upyr1 said:

I don't think we will ever have a flyable weasel however regular Phantoms operated along side the weasels. So I thought maybe we could have an AI weasel that gives us the range and barring to a radar so we can attack them.

 

I agree that would be nice! 

And eventually maybe a full suite of Phantastic Phantom AI's to fill out flightlines and various airborne flights, carrier decks and so on! 

[upyr1]

15 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

I agree that would be nice! 

And eventually maybe a full suite of Phantastic Phantom AI's to fill out flightlines and various airborne flights, carrier decks and so on! 

The E and G are almost identical in appearance, so simply taking an AI E and adding STARMs and HARMs would be a good starting point. Though my real question is if the HTS changes AI behavior? If so then you would have to code the G to act like it has an HTS

[TLTeo]

18 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Though my real question is if the HTS changes AI behavior?

You are greatly under estimating how simple the DCS AI is. Try having an AI F-5E or Mirage drop LGBs on a target with no JTAC anywhere in sight - the bombs will track perfectly as if something was designating. I think it's highly unlikely (at best) the AI's behavior will change with the HTS if it doesn't even need a TGP to guide LGBs. Which takes me back to my original point - having a dedicated SEAD AI Phantom is not going to behave significantly differently from an -E firing Shrikes.

Edited February 3, 2022 by TLTeo

[upyr1]

50 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

You are greatly under estimating how simple the DCS AI is. Try having an AI F-5E or Mirage drop LGBs on a target with no JTAC anywhere in sight - the bombs will track perfectly as if something was designating. I think it's highly unlikely (at best) the AI's behavior will change with the HTS if it doesn't even need a TGP to guide LGBs. Which takes me back to my original point - having a dedicated SEAD AI Phantom is not going to behave significantly differently from an -E firing Shrikes.

This is why I said at the minimum to do the G, you would need to take the E and add the AGM-78 and 88 to the loadout table. to include those missiles.

[ustio]

I want the G too, but I doubt we'll get it since its quite different from the E.

 

However, I do think the F with AMRAAM is more likely since Mr. Finke flew it before he flew the typhoon

[upyr1]

36 minutes ago, ustio said:

I want the G too, but I doubt we'll get it since its quite different from the E.

 

However, I do think the F with AMRAAM is more likely since Mr. Finke flew it before he flew the typhoon

I doubt we'll ever get a flyable G either, because EW is just too top secret. So I am asking for an AI G and not a flyable one. At the minimum a G would simply editing the payload to remove the gun and add the STARM and HARM. I would like to see the Ice or some other Phantom 2K

[exhausted]

I would go for a flyable F-4G Weasel in an instant!

[upyr1]

7 hours ago, exhausted said:

I would go for a flyable F-4G Weasel in an instant!

Same, but I figure working on it as an AI asset first might be the way to go. As there might not be enough public information to do the EWOs seat

[Kalasnkova74]

A FF F-4G model ain’t happening. Setting aside the major obstacle of EW tactics still being classified , you’d need a Jester-EWO. Which would be the most complex game AI ever created , because that character would have to know a LOT about electronic warfare to act as the bear.

Further, the behavior and characteristics of SAMs and IADS in game would have to be overhauled , because real life operators were very dynamic. It was a cat and mouse game between the IADS people (who’d shoot from one site, but launch guidance from a different site..) and the Weasel (make fake “Magnum” calls to dupe the site into triggering a launch that gives away their position , etc) 

[upyr1]

57 minutes ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

A FF F-4G model ain’t happening. Setting aside the major obstacle of EW tactics still being classified , you’d need a Jester-EWO. Which would be the most complex game AI ever created , because that character would have to know a LOT about electronic warfare to act as the bear.

Further, the behavior and characteristics of SAMs and IADS in game would have to be overhauled , because real life operators were very dynamic. It was a cat and mouse game between the IADS people (who’d shoot from one site, but launch guidance from a different site..) and the Weasel (make fake “Magnum” calls to dupe the site into triggering a launch that gives away their position , etc) 

This is why I'm specifically asking for AI Weasels, as I expect that EW is too classified for an FF Wild Weasel and even if I am wrong about that, I'm not sure if there is enough interest to justify a G module (I'd buy it if it were possible). Anyway as an AI asset, we would get the G in DCS with the minimum effort.  The only things HB would need to worry about with an AI G is changing the payload and antennae on their E model and ad a line about an HTS if it would change the AI's behavior.   

 

[Kalasnkova74]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

This is why I'm specifically asking for AI Weasels, as I expect that EW is too classified for an FF Wild Weasel and even if I am wrong about that, I'm not sure if there is enough interest to justify a G module (I'd buy it if it were possible). Anyway as an AI asset, we would get the G in DCS with the minimum effort.  The only things HB would need to worry about with an AI G is changing the payload and antennae on their E model and ad a line about an HTS if it would change the AI's behavior.   

 

You’re leaving out the IADS piece. Without a responsive and intelligent IADS , there’s no one for the AI Weasel or the player(s) to play against. 

[upyr1]

8 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

You’re leaving out the IADS piece. Without a responsive and intelligent IADS , there’s no one for the AI Weasel or the player(s) to play against. 

Improving DC's AI so we have an integrated air defense system would be ED's job, so I didn't mention it here. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done I'm just saying its ED's job not HBs

Edited June 5, 2024 by upyr1

[upyr1]

9 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

You’re leaving out the IADS piece. Without a responsive and intelligent IADS , there’s no one for the AI Weasel or the player(s) to play against. 

I'm asking ED about that