reported ATFLIR in Point Track doesn't update target designation.

[MARLAN_]

The ATFLIR while in point track does not update its target designation.

For example, if a target is moving 10 meters/second and you point track that target at position A, then you slave your maverick to the FLIR 20 seconds later, the target has moved 200 meters, and your maverick will slew to the original point, not the current point, so it will be 200 meters inaccurate.

This seemed like a AGM-65F bug initially, but the AGM-65E will in fact "work" (sort of)

The AGM-65E will slew to the same incorrect target point that is behind the moving target, however, when you fire the laser it will correct itself to the correct point.

It seems the ATFLIR is not updating its target designation like it should, but it does update its laser to the correct position.

Track attached.

 

MovingTGT.trk

[Tholozor]

I know this issue cropped up at one point, and was apparently fixed, but may need a revisit if it's happening again: 

Tracking a moving target with the radar in GMT should work as expected.

[Coyle]

Moving designation stops updating the moment TDC is taken away from the ATFLIR for any reason, and continues updating when the TDC is brought back to to ATFLIR. So yes that means if you TDC to a weapon or to the SA page, HUD etc., you've stopped the track... meaning your weapon now has stationary only data. MAV E will be the least affected weapon caused by this bug.

[BIGNEWY]

11 hours ago, MARLAN_ said:

The ATFLIR while in point track does not update its target designation.

For example, if a target is moving 10 meters/second and you point track that target at position A, then you slave your maverick to the FLIR 20 seconds later, the target has moved 200 meters, and your maverick will slew to the original point, not the current point, so it will be 200 meters inaccurate.

This seemed like a AGM-65F bug initially, but the AGM-65E will in fact "work" (sort of)

The AGM-65E will slew to the same incorrect target point that is behind the moving target, however, when you fire the laser it will correct itself to the correct point.

It seems the ATFLIR is not updating its target designation like it should, but it does update its laser to the correct position.

Track attached.

 

MovingTGT.trk 456.45 kB · 1 download

It is important to make sure you are in range so when you switch to the maverick it can get its own lock on the moving target, I've been testing this morning based on your report and I am not seeing a problem, unless the target is long range and the MAV seeker does not get the lock correctly.

[MARLAN_]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

It is important to make sure you are in range so when you switch to the maverick it can get its own lock on the moving target, I've been testing this morning based on your report and I am not seeing a problem, unless the target is long range and the MAV seeker does not get the lock correctly.

In the track I'm pretty sure I showed the maverick failing to point in the correct direction throughout the entire attack.

Ill make another track in a bit. Maybe it's fixed on your internal version.

[MARLAN_]

12 hours ago, Coyle said:

Moving designation stops updating the moment TDC is taken away from the ATFLIR for any reason, and continues updating when the TDC is brought back to to ATFLIR. So yes that means if you TDC to a weapon or to the SA page, HUD etc., you've stopped the track... meaning your weapon now has stationary only data. MAV E will be the least affected weapon caused by this bug.

Yea, this is right, thanks for the info, at least now I know exactly what to do to avoid this bug until it's fixed!

Here's a video showing the issue @BIGNEWY--

 

It also highlights how annoying Auto Track is to use in DCS (not even trying to make this difficult on purpose lol, it just won't track, or tries to track the ground here's a video displaying the ATFLIR point track -- hopefully the new FLIR model will help not targeting the road, although you can see the way point track is acquired in DCS is different. There is a growing acquisition box)

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by MARLAN_
minor corrections (point -> auto, shrinking -> growing)

[MARLAN_]

Just in case anyone was thinking the black/white visual mod affected anything (I was curious too, who knows!) here's another recording with no mods whatsoever.

(And oh my, it's impossible to see anything on the screen, especially in green. Too bad we can't adjust the screen independent of the symbology, turning down brightness helps a tiny bit, but the symbology is still very hard to see.)

 

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, MARLAN_ said:

Too bad we can't adjust the screen independent of the symbology

Disable the automatic level-gain (ALG) option and you can adjust the Level and Gain independently from the DDI knobs.

[MARLAN_]

44 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

Disable the automatic level-gain (ALG) option and you can adjust the Level and Gain independently from the DDI knobs.

Sadly, we can't do that in TV mode (unless I'm missing something), which makes TV nearly completely unusable right now. I used to prefer TV most of the time, and have been forced to use IR lately.

[norman99]

I have another ATFLIR tracking question. When auto tracking a moving target, if the aircraft turns to block the LOS to the target, even for extremely long timeframes such as 1-2min, auto tracking immediately works and tracks the original target upon regaining LOS. Is this correct?

Wouldn’t losing LOS break the ATFLIR auto track? Or does the ATFLIR calculate expected movement when LOS is lost in an attempt to reaquire an auto track when able? If so, it kinda works too well. It currently seems like there’s a magic all seeing auto track that knows where the moving target is at all times.

I haven’t yet tested what happens when a moving target changes directions whilst the ATFIR LOS is blocked, but it should definitely not reacquire an auto track in this situation.

Edited March 19, 2022 by norman99

[BIGNEWY]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:07 PM, norman99 said:

I have another ATFLIR tracking question. When auto tracking a moving target, if the aircraft turns to block the LOS to the target, even for extremely long timeframes such as 1-2min, auto tracking immediately works and tracks the original target upon regaining LOS. Is this correct?

Wouldn’t losing LOS break the ATFLIR auto track? Or does the ATFLIR calculate expected movement when LOS is lost in an attempt to reaquire an auto track when able? If so, it kinda works too well. It currently seems like there’s a magic all seeing auto track that knows where the moving target is at all times.

I haven’t yet tested what happens when a moving target changes directions whilst the ATFIR LOS is blocked, but it should definitely not reacquire an auto track in this situation.

 

It is correct as long as the target has continued in the same direction and speed. 

[Harker]

On 3/16/2022 at 7:53 AM, Coyle said:

Moving designation stops updating the moment TDC is taken away from the ATFLIR for any reason, and continues updating when the TDC is brought back to to ATFLIR. So yes that means if you TDC to a weapon or to the SA page, HUD etc., you've stopped the track... meaning your weapon now has stationary only data. MAV E will be the least affected weapon caused by this bug.

That's the actual bug here. AUTO will only update the designation if the TDC is assigned to the FLIR page. This is wrong, because as long as the FLIR remains the designating sensor (and it does, indicated by the FLIR cue on the HUD), it should continuously update the designation, regardless of TDC assignment.

The laser is firing at the tracked target, since it is tied to the FLIR LOS, not the designation.

I cannot submit a track right now (the OP's track should suffice), but it is very easy to reproduce:

1. Load the ATFLIR.
2. Track a moving target, using AUTO.
3. (Zoom in) Observe that the designation diamond is following the moving target.
4. Assign the TDC to another page (SA page, Radar, Maverick etc).
5. Observe that the ATFLIR is still AUTO-tracking the moving target, but the designation itself remains stationary. Notice the FLIR cue on the HUD, that informs that the FLIR is the designating sensor.

On a side note, the A/G radar in FTT does not suffer from the same bug.

[CH4Pz]

Im currently playing through "Cerberus North" campaign (EPIC!) and on mission called tornados, where you need to get 2 sams, but, firstly the screen is really dark on the mav once timed (tried BHOT vs WHOT but just changes crosshair), but can make it lighter by bumping the contrast down, but when i lock up the sams in a point/area track, then switch screens and uncage the mav they slave to the centre of the runway (WP6), which was my original target point, not my current one in tgp. Also if i cycle through area>point and once more, it jumps back to WP6 instead of where i was looking. This wasnt the case first couple attempts of this mission though, but cant remember exact point i updated the game, so not sure if its a new bug, or im doing something different by mistake??   

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

I am not having any issues slaving Mavs, can you try in a normal mission and if you still have the same behaviour attach the track replay. 

Using the MAV tutorial will be fine, otherwise the track will be to large. 

thanks

[MARLAN_]

 

[BIGNEWY]

Posts merged, investigating

[31st ff iceman]

the AFT Flir always goes into denNAR mode, even if you want to go into wide mode

[BIGNEWY]

I have made a report for the team to check. 

thanks