not planned Slave George to selected pilot ACQ / Waypoint / Control Measure

[LF_Luftmanu]

Dear friends,

I have been having a great time with the AH-64D so far, but I believe that some options could be useful for George.

 

Having to manually look at the point I want him to look and search for targets it's sometimes a little but troublesome. Having flown the F-14 from Heatblur and looking at their implementation of the Lantirn and Ai interaction I was wondering if the could have something similar.

 

I think that having him looking at the selected pilot ACQ source would be great. You just select the point in mid-flight and then give him the command. You can also add Targets, Waypoints etc.... in only one key. Even the temporal PLT point.

 

Please, take a look at looking more options for SP flyers.

 

Kind regards,

Edited March 19, 2022 by LF_Luftmanu

[Relayer]

Seconded, this would be an incredibly useful option for SP players.

[WolfK33]

Exactly what I was thinking the whole time. For the Hind the system was/is ok so far, but here we have that bird with a million sensors and electronic thingies that can be shared between pilot and cpg back and forth and success depends on if I hit the right pixel with my TrackIr. I hope that all that is already planned by ED and we´re only seeing the very first very basic version.

I even hope that the CPG gets some kind of SOP, as in, even if I don´t tell him to he looks at our next WP or wherever a real CPG would look, and tell me if there is something without having been told to instead of studying the playmate of the month...

ED, please make your AI a bit more...Jester-ish.

Aaand, while we´re at it (again, I´m pretty sure and hope ED have planned this already), when he finds a target right now, but only one so there isn´t a list, it would be nice to know what he found.

"There are [targets/enemies/whatever] at the waypoint/ahead/wherever."

"Target lased and stored as T03. It´s a SA-15"...

etc..

edit: I would pay for a Heatblur-made AI-addon for the Hind and Apache. Including jokes and wiseass remarks about landings etc lol.

So far nothing in DCS for me beats flying in the Tomcat with Jester and actually talking to him with Vaicom AIRIO

Edited March 19, 2022 by WolfK33

[LF_Luftmanu]

hace 53 minutos, WolfK33 dijo:

Exactly what I was thinking the whole time. For the Hind the system was/is ok so far, but here we have that bird with a million sensors and electronic thingies that can be shared between pilot and cpg back and forth and success depends on if I hit the right pixel with my TrackIr. I hope that all that is already planned by ED and we´re only seeing the very first very basic version.

I even hope that the CPG gets some kind of SOP, as in, even if I don´t tell him to he looks at our next WP or wherever a real CPG would look, and tell me if there is something without having been told to instead of studying the playmate of the month...

ED, please make your AI a bit more...Jester-ish.

Aaand, while we´re at it (again, I´m pretty sure and hope ED have planned this already), when he finds a target right now, but only one so there isn´t a list, it would be nice to know what he found.

"There are [targets/enemies/whatever] at the waypoint/ahead/wherever."

"Target lased and stored as T03. It´s a SA-15"...

etc..

edit: I would pay for a Heatblur-made AI-addon for the Hind and Apache. Including jokes and wiseass remarks about landings etc lol.

So far nothing in DCS for me beats flying in the Tomcat with Jester and actually talking to him with Vaicom AIRIO

 

I agree. Petrovich and this was a great combo, but we need something more to tell George where to aim. Maybe add another kind of commands to store targets too? 

This would be really great for SP flyers or people who can't find a CPG. 

 

I hope they take a look into this. IMHO slaving into a ACQ source should be a great addition if done nevertheless.

Edited March 19, 2022 by LF_Luftmanu

[WolfK33]

17 minutes ago, LF_Luftmanu said:

 IMHO slaving into a ACQ source should be a great addition if done nevertheless.

 

Absolutely.  That should be absolute basic functionality. That's what acq sources are for after all hehe 

[Raptor9]

To accomplish this, all you have to do is set the point you want George to look at as your ACQ source.  Either select it in the COORD page or select CAQ on the TSD and cursor select it. The ACQ LOS reticle "broken crosshairs" will be displayed in your HMD symbology. Simply place your LOS reticle over it, and command George to search that area with Up-Short.

[AvroLanc]

2 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

To accomplish this, all you have to do is set the point you want George to look at as your ACQ source.  Either select it in the COORD page or select CAQ on the TSD and cursor select it. The ACQ LOS reticle "broken crosshairs" will be displayed in your HMD symbology. Simply place your LOS reticle over it, and command George to search that area with Up-Short.

This is an excellent workaround, and I've been doing it since day 1.....but.....it does mean alot of ACQ source switching for the pilot. Once I've ordered George onto the T point, I might want to have TADS or SKR as acq to have SA on exactly which target he's going for. 

Is there any change ED can shoehorn in a more direct method? Not sure with current interface, I dunno.

[Raptor9]

Any input into an AI interface to instruct George to look at a point in the database wouldn't be any less button presses or inputs than selecting a point on your TSD with your cursor via the CAQ function, and then switching it back to TADS after designating that location

Personally, I feel that adding that level of complexity is unnecessarily redundant given the cockpit tools already at hand. Turning the AI interface into something as complicated like the Jester interface would defeat the goal of keeping the AI interface easy to use.

[Mantikor]

The big issue is that ED thinks that simple is equal to unfunctional. 

Please, don't talk anymore about walkarrounds, these are simple requests, make George able to initiate a LST, make George able to slave to an AQS. These are not complicated features like you can find in other AI solutions.

Your workaround is simply not working. Often I have to slave George to a coordinate, that is not yet visible to me, for example enemies hiding behind buildings, and then I'm dead, simply because I had to manage george directly in the second when I pop up. This is not simple, this is not cool, this is simply a non functional implementation  and to be honest the complete oposite of "simple". Compared to a good one click implementation (my recommendation would be to use the "search again" function to the set ACQS) it has 5 or more clicks.

Just my 2 cent

 

[GumidekCZ]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:23 PM, Mantikor said:

The big issue is that ED thinks that simple is equal to unfunctional. 

Please, don't talk anymore about walkarrounds, these are simple requests, make George able to initiate a LST, make George able to slave to an AQS. These are not complicated features like you can find in other AI solutions.

Your workaround is simply not working. Often I have to slave George to a coordinate, that is not yet visible to me, for example enemies hiding behind buildings, and then I'm dead, simply because I had to manage george directly in the second when I pop up. This is not simple, this is not cool, this is simply a non functional implementation  and to be honest the complete oposite of "simple". Compared to a good one click implementation (my recommendation would be to use the "search again" function to the set ACQS) it has 5 or more clicks.

Just my 2 cent

 

@Raptor9 We really need this. The workaround works if only few on single target in area. In target dense area, the workarnoud is just NIGHTMARE!!!

Edited August 6, 2024 by GumidekCZ

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, GumidekCZ said:

@Raptor9 We really need this. The workaround works if only few on single target in area. In target dense area, the workarnoud is just NIGHTMARE!!!

If the suggested wishlist item was implemented, in which George is commanded to slave to the Pilot's ACQ source and search in that area, how is this any different than what is done already with Up-Short while looking at the broken cross located at your ACQ source?

I fail to see how this would be a worthwhile implementation. We do have other ideas for how to improve George CPG's behavior and features, but adding another command that essentially duplicates an existing command (Up-Short) seems very redundant.

[Floyd1212]

I think what they are looking for is a way to tell George to set a specific TGT point as his ACQ and then slave to it, then when he has LOS he lases it, not so much a search of the area.  Assuming the target was stored accurately beforehand, this can mean he can already be looking at the target you are going to attack when you unmask, avoiding the search process with a list of many targets, some of which may be duplicates vehicle types, but off somewhere else.

[Raptor9]

@Floyd1212, yes, this is certainly similar to one of the ideas we have.

However, the thread was about leveraging the Pilot's selected ACQ source to cue George where to search for a target. In which case this doesn't add anything, since if the player were to select a TSD point as the ACQ source to cue George where to look, that is no different than the current behavior that exists now, with the exception the Player just looks at the cross and presses the command to search.

I understand that other methods for George to search for targets are desired; and again, we have ideas for how we could potentially improve this. But basing the search location off the Pilot's ACQ source is not a worthwhile method to implement when it can already be done using the existing logic.

[GumidekCZ]

13 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

@Floyd1212, yes, this is certainly similar to one of the ideas we have.

However, the thread was about leveraging the Pilot's selected ACQ source to cue George where to search for a target. In which case this doesn't add anything, since if the player were to select a TSD point as the ACQ source to cue George where to look, that is no different than the current behavior that exists now, with the exception the Player just looks at the cross and presses the command to search.

I understand that other methods for George to search for targets are desired; and again, we have ideas for how we could potentially improve this. But basing the search location off the Pilot's ACQ source is not a worthwhile method to implement when it can already be done using the existing logic.

2 Player both as Pilots. One find batch of vehicles with two SHORDS. He stores both SHORADS and send these to other Player who is in cover. First Player wants to engage these quickly and simultaneously. EXISTING LOGIC IS NOT ALLOWING TO DO THAT NOW. Before George AI will find SHORAD and Player will sort the correct one, by the long time exposure - he will be dead before he can shoot - existing logic is useless in such very common scenario!
I really would like to see added "George Slave to pilot selected ACQ point" feature.

[Mantikor]

Am 6.8.2024 um 22:07 schrieb Raptor9:

@Floyd1212, yes, this is certainly similar to one of the ideas we have.

However, the thread was about leveraging the Pilot's selected ACQ source to cue George where to search for a target. In which case this doesn't add anything, since if the player were to select a TSD point as the ACQ source to cue George where to look, that is no different than the current behavior that exists now, with the exception the Player just looks at the cross and presses the command to search.

I understand that other methods for George to search for targets are desired; and again, we have ideas for how we could potentially improve this. But basing the search location off the Pilot's ACQ source is not a worthwhile method to implement when it can already be done using the existing logic.

@Raptor9 the point is the following:

Situation 1: Im inbound on a target on high altitude. I have already stored the target as AQS. I see the Target in my IHADS. Target is more than 6 km away and I like to engage it with a hellfire. Now I try to slave George to the Target Area with the "Look here" function. Problem: George is spotting not 6 km in the distance, he is looking 2-4 km in front, because on this distance it is nearly impossible to hit the target with the IHADS cross. 

Expected Solution, when I hit the "Search Again" Button, Georg is scannig the area arround my AQS. 

Situation 2: Im inbound on a target on very low altitude to perform an Pop Up Attack. When I'm close to the target, 2-3 km, I pop up, take a look in the direction of the target and try to slave George to this area. What happend is, George is looking at a building, a tree or whatever else, what is blocking the line of sight during the popup. Result, I have to manage George uncomfortable during the Pop Up.

Expected Solution, , when I hit the "Search Again" Button, Georg is scannig the area arround my AQS. So that I can focus on flying complexe manouvers,

Situation 3: Im in an attack run, I have stored the target and have set it as AQS. Now I have to evade, I went down, turn arround and start a new run. When I came back the enym is already aware of me and speed is essential. Before I can attack again, I have to look arround with george to find my already stored targets again, waste time and perhaps get shot, before I'm able to fight.

Expected Solution, yeah you might guess, when I hit the "Search Again" Button, Georg is scannig the area arround my AQS.

 

So as you can see, there are many very good reasons, why this feature is needed and why the actual solution is nothing more than a workarround. If you think that this is not correct, I'm willing to meet you on a public server to let you teach me on how to use the existing solution in the described situations without any issues and malefunctions.  Maybe I'm just not experienced enough.

BR

Edited August 11, 2024 by Mantikor

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, Mantikor said:

So as you can see, there are many very good reasons, why this feature is needed and why the actual solution is nothing more than a workarround. If you think that this is not correct, I'm willing to meet you on a public server to let you teach me on how to use the existing solution in the described situations without any issues and malefunctions.  Maybe I'm just not experienced enough.

@Mantikor, I understand perfectly the applicabilty and uses of being able to command George to reacquire a previously stored target. That is a feature we have discussed internally as I stated in my previous comments in this very thread. But that is not what is at issue here. This thread is about the method of achieving it, using the Pilot ACQ selection to command George to perform this function, which makes it needlessly redundant given the existing logic and can be disruptive to the pilot's own cockpit flow.

Again, I'm not saying that a method for reacquiring a previously stored target is not planned. The OP's requested method of achieving this is not planned.

[lefuneste01]

15 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

and can be disruptive to the pilot's own cockpit flow.

I do not totally agree. It really depends on the way you are flying the A64 solo and preparing your attack. You a supposing we are only looking outside as solo pilot, but we are also using TSD, radar,....

Moreover, in real life, would you ask your CPG "hey, point out the TADS where i'm looking at" instead of "hey, point the TADS on the WPx " ?

I understand you did not plan things in this way yet, but I feel also this feature missing.

Edited August 12, 2024 by lefuneste01

[Mantikor]

@Raptor9
if anything is coming to achieve a slave of the TADS with George to a AQS I'm happy. But the simple feature of telling my CPG that he shall slave his Stuff to my AQS is realy missed

Edited August 12, 2024 by Mantikor